Help me reawaken the beast

cptnemo · Post by **cptnemo** » April 26th, 2005, 6:29 pm

I tried to start up my car on Sunday after it sat on my driveway for the winter. It was turning over and its getting fuel I think (I could smell the gas after cranking for a while) but wouldnt start, even when I tryed boosting it. It sounds really close to starting, does anyone have any idea whats wrong? I need to fix it this week before I start a new job on monday. Any help would be appreciated.

bushidosword · Post by **bushidosword** » April 26th, 2005, 6:36 pm

i would check out the distributer, could be that if you have little to no spark? Have you had to change yours yet? If not, could very well be!

Have you checked for spark?

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » April 26th, 2005, 6:46 pm

Oh boy, if it's been sitting all winter and this is the first time to turn it over, I hope it's not what I think it may be. I'm hoping that when you put it away for the winter that you removed the plugs, poured or sprayed some protective type oil spray into the cylinders. If not, over time (winter) any oil film that was left on the cylinder walls after it's last run would have seeped passed the rings by now. Or perhaps you didn't do that and decided to spray some oil down now. If so, after each cylinder has got a squirt and oil has had time to encircle the rings then you can turn the engine over with the spark plugs removed. This will pose less stress on moving parts in particular the cam belt. If none of these precautions were done, then it may be very likely that the cam belt may have jumped a few teeth giving you the impression that it wants to start but can't because the timing sequence is out by a small amount that's not correctable with a timing adjust. The belts would have to be removed and re-installed correctly.

georgechicken · Post by **georgechicken** » April 26th, 2005, 9:05 pm

Lets start with the more likely culprits... I'm agreeing that the distributor is the first point of inspection... The fuel smell is enough to go on for now to tell us we probably have fuel. If you havent unplugged stuff or done rearrangements or modifications, then we can probably assume we have air, too.. that leaves spark. Do a spark test and see if you're getting spark to any of the cylinders. If not, then look in the online shop manual for the diagnosis procedure for the distributor.. Before condemning it, if you do come to the conclusion that you're getting no spark, then first try replacing the cap and rotor. I've seen more times than not in the last few years that after a car has sat for more than a week or two and will not start that the cap and rotor is often a solution for the problem. You'll have to purchase a cap and rotor anyways when replacing the distributor, so start with those. It's cured that problem for me probably 4 of the last 5 or 6 times I've run across it. If you ARE getting spark, then thats when we go into the harder head-scratching, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it... so check for spark and let us know. Good luck!

Daniel

hgallegos915 · Post by **hgallegos915** » April 26th, 2005, 9:36 pm

That happens to me whenever i remove the intake manifold in spray carb cleaner in the throttle..it is impossible to start it without usint the "remove fuse" method.. basically... remove fuel pump fuse...crank ..as it cranks re inster it..wont work the first time..after a bit u get the hang of it and it starts everytime u try this method. Pretty good for when it floods and first starts.

georgechicken · Post by **georgechicken** » April 27th, 2005, 12:57 pm

I know this is straying a bit, but....

Did you know that our ECU's have a function called 'dechoke' that was designed to help you blow excess fuel/fluid from the cylinders in the case of a flood condition? It's simple to use, too. All you do is when you're turning the motor over (key turned to 'start' position, as if you're starting the car), just hold the throttle pedal all the way to the floor. When the ECU detects a WOT (wide-open throttle) position from the throttle position sensor while in start/cranking mode, then it cuts all fuel flow to allow you to blow the fuel/fluid from your cylinders without injecting more. Just a bit of little-known knowledge for you folks..
Good luck!

Daniel

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » April 27th, 2005, 6:07 pm

georgechicken wrote:I know this is straying a bit, but....
Did you know that our ECU's have a function called 'dechoke' that was designed to help you blow excess fuel/fluid from the cylinders in the case of a flood condition? It's simple to use, too. All you do is when you're turning the motor over (key turned to 'start' position, as if you're starting the car), just hold the throttle pedal all the way to the floor. When the ECU detects a WOT (wide-open throttle) position from the throttle position sensor while in start/cranking mode, then it cuts all fuel flow to allow you to blow the fuel/fluid from your cylinders without injecting more. Just a bit of little-known knowledge for you folks..
Good luck!Daniel

Not that I've needed it in the past and hope I don't in the future, it sure helps to know these little known gems. Thanks for that George.

rebel2k4 · Post by **rebel2k4** » April 27th, 2005, 6:16 pm

jschrauwen wrote:Oh boy, if it's been sitting all winter and this is the first time to turn it over, I hope it's not what I think it may be. I'm hoping that when you put it away for the winter that you removed the plugs, poured or sprayed some protective type oil spray into the cylinders. If not, over time (winter) any oil film that was left on the cylinder walls after it's last run would have seeped passed the rings by now. Or perhaps you didn't do that and decided to spray some oil down now. If so, after each cylinder has got a squirt and oil has had time to encircle the rings then you can turn the engine over with the spark plugs removed. This will pose less stress on moving parts in particular the cam belt. If none of these precautions were done, then it may be very likely that the cam belt may have jumped a few teeth giving you the impression that it wants to start but can't because the timing sequence is out by a small amount that's not correctable with a timing adjust. The belts would have to be removed and re-installed correctly.

Might I ask where you came up with such a theory? It would seem that youre trying to imply that the engine would have seized from sitting? and then the timing belt just jumps a tooth on its own while trying to crank? I read that like 5 times and it still makes no practical sense. Mind rewording this?

My engine sat for 2-3 yrs with no protection, I swapped it into my car and it started and ran beautiful with great compression. Check for spark. Disty may have died. THats what happened to me. Also, make sure that battery is charged well. Sometimes jumper cables dont cut it.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » April 27th, 2005, 6:51 pm

rebel2k4 wrote:Might I ask where you came up with such a theory? It would seem that youre trying to imply that the engine would have seized from sitting? and then the timing belt just jumps a tooth on its own while trying to crank?

I guess I may have made it a bit confusing, but essentially, ya, the belt jumping a couple teeth. My personal experience with another Mazda that was less than a year old indicates that it can happen at any time on any year. I suppose if spark is present while turning engine over would confirm.

bushidosword · Post by **bushidosword** » April 27th, 2005, 7:17 pm

so any updates?

cptnemo · Post by **cptnemo** » April 27th, 2005, 11:05 pm

sorry about taking so long to reply, I'm in the middle of writing final exams. I started the car a month ago just to make sure it stayed lubricated and move the oil around a bit. The car started up fine then so it makes this even more frustating. The plugs were changed recently but I think the wires and distibutor are original so I'm thinking the distibutor is the problem. I'm going to take a good luck at it on friday and report back if I've got spark. If anyone has any other suggestions of things to look for, I'd like to hear them.

cptnemo · Post by **cptnemo** » April 29th, 2005, 2:22 pm

Problem solved! well, my favorite solution worked on my car. I tried starting it again yesterday and it fired right up. Its not starting as well as it used to, I have to give it some gas to get it to catch, so is there something that could be causing a problem? I think I'll change the rotor cap as it needs to be done anyways.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » April 29th, 2005, 2:34 pm

What year is your car? There have been reported problems and definate reliability problems with the distributors in pre 1994 cars.

Just a side note.. this problem was supposedly resolved in the 1994+ cars.. so all you K8 guys.. are the distributors backwards compatible? In other words.. can you use a distributor from a 94 GS on a 92/93 without modifications? Just curious since it might apply here.

Tunes67

mxmaz · Post by **mxmaz** » April 29th, 2005, 2:51 pm

Tunes67 wrote:are the distributors backwards compatible? In other words.. can you use a distributor from a 94 GS on a 92/93 without modifications? Just curious since it might apply here.
Tunes67

Yes you can. This is an old post by IanL on how the get the 94+ distys to work on 92-93.

You just swap the three wires around in the connector. An auto-electrician should be able to do it in under a minute, with the right tool.

The pin idents are on Page G-27.

The diagram doesn't give wire colours; after the swap they should be:
Coil connection [A] is Blue
Resistor to Tacho [C] is Yellow/Blue
Data Link Connector is Red

Before the swap they will be:
Coil connection [C] is Blue
Resistor to Tacho is Yellow/Blue
Data Link Connector [A] is Red

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » April 29th, 2005, 2:57 pm

Thanks mxmas.. I figured there would be some type of hoop you had to jump through.. but that sounds like it would be fairly simple to do.

Thanks again

Tunes67