Help me reawaken the beast
Help me reawaken the beast
I tried to start up my car on Sunday after it sat on my driveway for the winter. It was turning over and its getting fuel I think (I could smell the gas after cranking for a while) but wouldnt start, even when I tryed boosting it. It sounds really close to starting, does anyone have any idea whats wrong? I need to fix it this week before I start a new job on monday. Any help would be appreciated.
- bushidosword
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- jschrauwen
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Oh boy, if it's been sitting all winter and this is the first time to turn it over, I hope it's not what I think it may be. I'm hoping that when you put it away for the winter that you removed the plugs, poured or sprayed some protective type oil spray into the cylinders. If not, over time (winter) any oil film that was left on the cylinder walls after it's last run would have seeped passed the rings by now. Or perhaps you didn't do that and decided to spray some oil down now. If so, after each cylinder has got a squirt and oil has had time to encircle the rings then you can turn the engine over with the spark plugs removed. This will pose less stress on moving parts in particular the cam belt. If none of these precautions were done, then it may be very likely that the cam belt may have jumped a few teeth giving you the impression that it wants to start but can't because the timing sequence is out by a small amount that's not correctable with a timing adjust. The belts would have to be removed and re-installed correctly.
'92 GS-ZE - sold, '95 GS - sold, '02 Protege LX - Daughter, '00 Audi A4 2.8 QTip, Ducati TT2
90 JDM RHD 300ZX TT - 572.1 RWHP | 590.0 RWTQ | 21 PSI | Pump gas
90 JDM RHD 300ZX TT - 572.1 RWHP | 590.0 RWTQ | 21 PSI | Pump gas
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Lets start with the more likely culprits... I'm agreeing that the distributor is the first point of inspection... The fuel smell is enough to go on for now to tell us we probably have fuel. If you havent unplugged stuff or done rearrangements or modifications, then we can probably assume we have air, too.. that leaves spark. Do a spark test and see if you're getting spark to any of the cylinders. If not, then look in the online shop manual for the diagnosis procedure for the distributor.. Before condemning it, if you do come to the conclusion that you're getting no spark, then first try replacing the cap and rotor. I've seen more times than not in the last few years that after a car has sat for more than a week or two and will not start that the cap and rotor is often a solution for the problem. You'll have to purchase a cap and rotor anyways when replacing the distributor, so start with those. It's cured that problem for me probably 4 of the last 5 or 6 times I've run across it. If you ARE getting spark, then thats when we go into the harder head-scratching, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it... so check for spark and let us know. Good luck!
Daniel
Daniel
--Maybe the Hippopotamus was just a really cool Apotamus.--
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That happens to me whenever i remove the intake manifold in spray carb cleaner in the throttle..it is impossible to start it without usint the "remove fuse" method.. basically... remove fuel pump fuse...crank ..as it cranks re inster it..wont work the first time..after a bit u get the hang of it and it starts everytime u try this method. Pretty good for when it floods and first starts.
-hec
MX-3 w/ curved neck millenia klde, boosted @ 5 psi. /bov and wastegate are good!/ nitto drag radial/ gutted interior/ millenia red top injectors, vortech fmu/aem wideband/ all bolts ons/ Car put together 100% by me. Mechanic? who needs a mechanic? ew.. real men work on their own cars!
MX-3 w/ curved neck millenia klde, boosted @ 5 psi. /bov and wastegate are good!/ nitto drag radial/ gutted interior/ millenia red top injectors, vortech fmu/aem wideband/ all bolts ons/ Car put together 100% by me. Mechanic? who needs a mechanic? ew.. real men work on their own cars!
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I know this is straying a bit, but....
Did you know that our ECU's have a function called 'dechoke' that was designed to help you blow excess fuel/fluid from the cylinders in the case of a flood condition? It's simple to use, too. All you do is when you're turning the motor over (key turned to 'start' position, as if you're starting the car), just hold the throttle pedal all the way to the floor. When the ECU detects a WOT (wide-open throttle) position from the throttle position sensor while in start/cranking mode, then it cuts all fuel flow to allow you to blow the fuel/fluid from your cylinders without injecting more. Just a bit of little-known knowledge for you folks..
Good luck!
Daniel
Did you know that our ECU's have a function called 'dechoke' that was designed to help you blow excess fuel/fluid from the cylinders in the case of a flood condition? It's simple to use, too. All you do is when you're turning the motor over (key turned to 'start' position, as if you're starting the car), just hold the throttle pedal all the way to the floor. When the ECU detects a WOT (wide-open throttle) position from the throttle position sensor while in start/cranking mode, then it cuts all fuel flow to allow you to blow the fuel/fluid from your cylinders without injecting more. Just a bit of little-known knowledge for you folks..
Good luck!
Daniel
--Maybe the Hippopotamus was just a really cool Apotamus.--
- jschrauwen
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Not that I've needed it in the past and hope I don't in the future, it sure helps to know these little known gems. Thanks for that George.georgechicken wrote:I know this is straying a bit, but....
Did you know that our ECU's have a function called 'dechoke' that was designed to help you blow excess fuel/fluid from the cylinders in the case of a flood condition? It's simple to use, too. All you do is when you're turning the motor over (key turned to 'start' position, as if you're starting the car), just hold the throttle pedal all the way to the floor. When the ECU detects a WOT (wide-open throttle) position from the throttle position sensor while in start/cranking mode, then it cuts all fuel flow to allow you to blow the fuel/fluid from your cylinders without injecting more. Just a bit of little-known knowledge for you folks..
Good luck!Daniel
'92 GS-ZE - sold, '95 GS - sold, '02 Protege LX - Daughter, '00 Audi A4 2.8 QTip, Ducati TT2
90 JDM RHD 300ZX TT - 572.1 RWHP | 590.0 RWTQ | 21 PSI | Pump gas
90 JDM RHD 300ZX TT - 572.1 RWHP | 590.0 RWTQ | 21 PSI | Pump gas
Might I ask where you came up with such a theory? It would seem that youre trying to imply that the engine would have seized from sitting? and then the timing belt just jumps a tooth on its own while trying to crank? I read that like 5 times and it still makes no practical sense. Mind rewording this?jschrauwen wrote:Oh boy, if it's been sitting all winter and this is the first time to turn it over, I hope it's not what I think it may be. I'm hoping that when you put it away for the winter that you removed the plugs, poured or sprayed some protective type oil spray into the cylinders. If not, over time (winter) any oil film that was left on the cylinder walls after it's last run would have seeped passed the rings by now. Or perhaps you didn't do that and decided to spray some oil down now. If so, after each cylinder has got a squirt and oil has had time to encircle the rings then you can turn the engine over with the spark plugs removed. This will pose less stress on moving parts in particular the cam belt. If none of these precautions were done, then it may be very likely that the cam belt may have jumped a few teeth giving you the impression that it wants to start but can't because the timing sequence is out by a small amount that's not correctable with a timing adjust. The belts would have to be removed and re-installed correctly.
My engine sat for 2-3 yrs with no protection, I swapped it into my car and it started and ran beautiful with great compression. Check for spark. Disty may have died. THats what happened to me. Also, make sure that battery is charged well. Sometimes jumper cables dont cut it.
94 Mazda MX3 GS - 395 whp 397 ft lbs untuned on pump gas and stock KLDE 15 psi boost. now running 16 psi and E85.. numbers=? 425ish whp
04 GSXR 600- full exh, power commander 3, int turn signals, etc
98 Ford Ranger 3.0L
01 YZ250- most fun vehicle Ive ever owned.
95 Eclipse- built 420a, 60-1, megasquirt, 371 whp @ 17 psi, dsm-broken-car-curse
04 GSXR 600- full exh, power commander 3, int turn signals, etc
98 Ford Ranger 3.0L
01 YZ250- most fun vehicle Ive ever owned.
95 Eclipse- built 420a, 60-1, megasquirt, 371 whp @ 17 psi, dsm-broken-car-curse
- jschrauwen
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I guess I may have made it a bit confusing, but essentially, ya, the belt jumping a couple teeth. My personal experience with another Mazda that was less than a year old indicates that it can happen at any time on any year. I suppose if spark is present while turning engine over would confirm.rebel2k4 wrote:Might I ask where you came up with such a theory? It would seem that youre trying to imply that the engine would have seized from sitting? and then the timing belt just jumps a tooth on its own while trying to crank?
'92 GS-ZE - sold, '95 GS - sold, '02 Protege LX - Daughter, '00 Audi A4 2.8 QTip, Ducati TT2
90 JDM RHD 300ZX TT - 572.1 RWHP | 590.0 RWTQ | 21 PSI | Pump gas
90 JDM RHD 300ZX TT - 572.1 RWHP | 590.0 RWTQ | 21 PSI | Pump gas
- bushidosword
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sorry about taking so long to reply, I'm in the middle of writing final exams. I started the car a month ago just to make sure it stayed lubricated and move the oil around a bit. The car started up fine then so it makes this even more frustating. The plugs were changed recently but I think the wires and distibutor are original so I'm thinking the distibutor is the problem. I'm going to take a good luck at it on friday and report back if I've got spark. If anyone has any other suggestions of things to look for, I'd like to hear them.
Problem solved! well, my favorite solution worked on my car. I tried starting it again yesterday and it fired right up. Its not starting as well as it used to, I have to give it some gas to get it to catch, so is there something that could be causing a problem? I think I'll change the rotor cap as it needs to be done anyways.
- Tunes67
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What year is your car? There have been reported problems and definate reliability problems with the distributors in pre 1994 cars.
Just a side note.. this problem was supposedly resolved in the 1994+ cars.. so all you K8 guys.. are the distributors backwards compatible? In other words.. can you use a distributor from a 94 GS on a 92/93 without modifications? Just curious since it might apply here.
Tunes67
Just a side note.. this problem was supposedly resolved in the 1994+ cars.. so all you K8 guys.. are the distributors backwards compatible? In other words.. can you use a distributor from a 94 GS on a 92/93 without modifications? Just curious since it might apply here.
Tunes67
Yes you can. This is an old post by IanL on how the get the 94+ distys to work on 92-93.Tunes67 wrote:are the distributors backwards compatible? In other words.. can you use a distributor from a 94 GS on a 92/93 without modifications? Just curious since it might apply here.
Tunes67
You just swap the three wires around in the connector. An auto-electrician should be able to do it in under a minute, with the right tool.
The pin idents are on Page G-27.
The diagram doesn't give wire colours; after the swap they should be:
Coil connection [A] is Blue
Resistor to Tacho [C] is Yellow/Blue
Data Link Connector is Red
Before the swap they will be:
Coil connection [C] is Blue
Resistor to Tacho is Yellow/Blue
Data Link Connector [A] is Red