MX3s Can't Drift...Good!

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 10th, 2006, 9:35 pm

Wow!!

I just found these instructional videos on driving techniques for both FWD and RWD cars by British Racer Tiff Needel. Take a look at the Ford Puma and tell me if it reminds you of a Japanese car you know. The BMW convertible looks like a blast to drive!

Tiff Needel Front wheel Drive Techniques; Ford Puma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBPH94cYKO0

Tiff Needell Rear wheel Drive Techniques; BMW Z3 M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7JQvCEO ... ed&search=

Jacbs2007 · Post by **Jacbs2007** » December 10th, 2006, 11:14 pm

Red Egg wrote:
Jacbs2007 wrote: 100lbs=100lbs! I'm a genious!

Urban Dictionary definition of "Genious"
It is often the case that [people] describe themselves as 'genious' but are ironically ignorant to the fact that the word is spelt 'genius' - much to the amusement of intelligent people.
"Like, woah, yeah man, I'm like, such a genious, dude!"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=genious

Wow... you'd think that for 43 years old you would've been able to pick up on the fact that I was being extremely sarcastic? If you would have seen that then perhaps you would realize I in no way implied I WAS a "genious"

Red Egg wrote:
Urban Dictionary definition of "Genious"
It is often the case that [people] describe themselves as 'genious' but are ironically ignorant to the fact that the word is spelt 'genius' - much to the amusement of intelligent people.
"Like, woah, yeah man, I'm like, such a genious, dude!"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=genious

so if it happens so often then I suppose a majority of the population is ignorant and not intelligent? don't be so quick to judge those things solely on something as little as a spelling error. Perhaps I have scleroderma and have 50% of the motion in my hands that a normal person does and it was simply an accident that I didn't bother to look over because of the pointless nature of this discussion? After all the I, O, and U all are beside each other on a standard keyboard.

Boris · Post by **Boris** » December 10th, 2006, 11:54 pm

Nice videos red egg, and yes that BMW IS a blast to drive. My old job used to be a car jockey for BMW.

I'd say this thread is pretty much resolved. The thread has provided a wealth of knowledge about why RWD is better than FWD for performance reasons, and why FWD cars have been put into production (they are cheap, easier to drive in most weather conditions, and not as expensive to repair). YES FWD CARS CAN PERFORM WELL, but RWD CARS WILL PERFORM BETTER ON THE TRACK for the MOST PART.

Everyone's always gonna have their own (sometimes ridiculous) opinions, but luckily this thread has provided many arguments for both sides. In my opinion, there's not much more to be said on the topic, unless someone provides some sort of "breakthrough" as to why FWD cars perform better than RWD. Hey, maybe someone on this site will be able to convince porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and even mazda to switch their high performance sports cars to front wheel drive, who knows?

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 11th, 2006, 12:05 am

Jacbs2007 wrote:I was being extremely sarcastic? If you would have seen that then perhaps you would realize I in no way implied I WAS a "genious"

So your original comments were a sarcastic insult? Nice one!

The definition of the word "genious" was a direct quote from the urban dictionary; those are not my words at all. It was all in a quote-box. You will notice that I even cleaned up the definition by substituting the word [people] for the actual dictionary word.

Why do I get the feeling that I am surrounded and outnumbered again?! I'm going to have to abandon this discussion one more time. The debate was getting good until the last few posts. I'm trying to learn more too, you know. I know a lot more about RWD than when I started.

Anyway, did anyone see the "Tiff Needel Driving Technique" videos. They are amazing!

Jacbs2007 · Post by **Jacbs2007** » December 11th, 2006, 12:13 am

well in that case I apologize. I did not join this forum to bash and if you took what I said in that way then understand it was not meant to come across like that. I don't mean this in a rude way but it just seems from this discussion that you are a little one sided. Everytime someone tries to explain to you a reason why rwd will out perform fwd, you seem to just dismiss it and go back to ranting about how superior fwd is.

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 11th, 2006, 12:17 am

No problem, Jacbs2007.

Boris is right. I think we've all exhausted every theory and argument.

Personally, I prefer small sporty FWD cars but I understand that they are not everyone's first choice. I see the merits of RWD for racing, especially after seeing Tiff Needell's RWD BMW in a power slide!

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 11th, 2006, 7:16 pm

FYI, here is an interesting 2-page article that compares the racing characteristics of two identical Dodge Daytonas, one FWD and one RWD. It doesn't really prove anything, but it is interesting!
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/test1.htm

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 13th, 2006, 4:04 pm

When I read this comparison of two Dodge Daytonas; one FWD and one RWD, it really drives home the argument that FWDs are better:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/test2.htm

mr1in6billion · Post by **mr1in6billion** » December 13th, 2006, 5:57 pm

Red Egg wrote:When I read this comparison of two Dodge Daytonas; one FWD and one RWD, it really drives home the argument that FWDs are better:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/test2.htm

HAHAHA.. now I get why you state things without backing them up. It's because you can't read.

Aside from the fact that the rwd version of the 'identical cars' beat the fwd version, there is nothing to suggest that fwd is better, infact the article tries to make it clear that in the end neither one is superior to the other.

The article stated that which car was faster through a corner depended on the type of corner
-we already knew that

It said the rwd broke better
-there goes your theory

The fwd had less oversteer and could throttle steer easier
-well duh

Each has there advantage, neither is clearly defined as superior. Go take some reading classes and then read the article again.

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 13th, 2006, 6:24 pm

mr1in6billion wrote: infact the article tries to make it clear that in the end neither one is superior to the other.

So if they are indeed the same, why waste your money on something that costs more, and is inferior in slippery conditions? (other than numbskullery?)

"On a wet or greasy track, better traction off the corners puts the front-driver in a class of its own."

The above quotes says it all. FWD is in a "class of its own". RDWers have been owned!

Boris · Post by **Boris** » December 13th, 2006, 7:30 pm

Red Egg wrote:
"On a wet or greasy track, better traction off the corners puts the front-driver in a class of its own."

The above quotes says it all. FWD is in a "class of its own". RDWers have been owned!

Better traction may not necessarily mean that it's faster around the corners though. I'm finding it difficult to believe that a FWD is slower going around a corner than a RWD, whether it's on a wet track or not. Perhaps they meant that it's safer using a FWD around corners? I still believe that with a professionaly driver, RWD would be faster around corners, as long as the driver was in proper control of the car. Not going to explain why, because I would just be repeating arguments that have already been stated.

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 13th, 2006, 7:36 pm

OK, OK, I withdraw that last comment (but the quote is the quote). This debate is getting tired!

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » December 13th, 2006, 7:45 pm

Seriously.. this argument is getting seriously retarded. The article is comparing 2 dodge daytonas? And because the FWD one did "Slightly" better than the RWD one you take that to mean FWD is superior? Dude.. you need to check yourself into a mental institution. This will be my last post in this thread.. Fact: RWD handles better on dry pavement. Since most performance road racing and track racing and sports car racing happens on dry pavement this makes RWD the superior choice of most people for those situations. Red Egg, you can continue to tell yourself how much FWD is better.. you're completely dillusional and moronic to believe this. But if it makes you feel better about your car.. what the heck.

To the rest of the posters in this thread.. you cannot instruct an insane person to be sane. Its not possible. He needs medication and therapy. You are pissing up a rope or pissing in the wind or beating a dead horse.. pick your euphemism. He already has his mind made up.. his sole intent in this thread is to argue & debate because he has nothing better to do with his time. If everyone stops posting here.. maybe he will go away, but in all likelyhood it will just somehow make his twisted little mind believe he was right all along. This makes me want to sell my MX-3s and buy a MR2.

Tunes67

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » December 13th, 2006, 9:30 pm

Tunes, I totally agree. All points have been made and the arguments just keep on recycling. I've been done putting my 2c into this thread.

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 13th, 2006, 10:46 pm

How dare you question my sanity! Such is the desperate measure of trolls who are losing an argument. Ha! I am as sane as any of you guys. I just have a different opinion on the benefits of FWD vs RWD.

Tunes67 & Nd4SpdSe: you are so smug in your opinion that you cannot concede that FWD may have its advantages for MOST drivers.

Tunes67 wants me to go away. Why should I? I've owned an MX3 since late 1991. I have more right to be here than he does. Tunes67 would trade his MX3 for a RWD American-made fart-box in a second, yet I think the MX3 is the greatest car ever. He should be the one to leave, not me.

If anyone supports me here, now is the time to speak up.

I am willing to let this go, but it is crummy to be attacked for having a different opinion