supercharged b6

boostedmx · Post by **boostedmx** » August 11th, 2002, 10:50 am

the kit does not come with one and it would be a waste to have to fabricate all new piping and brackets for a 40-60 hp gain. it just doesnt seem smart compared to turbocharging. yeah it would fit but you would still have a slow car.

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » August 11th, 2002, 11:24 am

slow is relative. There are pluses and minuses to everything, including roots blowers. Yes, turbos are far more efficent and will produce more power per amount of postitive manifold pressure. However, i still like roots blowers.And you dont NEED an intercooler with ANY form of forced induction...thats a myth.

TopGun · Post by **TopGun** » August 11th, 2002, 1:11 pm

You need an intercooler to run high boost - that's no myth.

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » August 11th, 2002, 3:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Top Gun: You need an intercooler to run high boost - that's no myth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>From a miata board: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I have been using Toluene for years, however I have not posted the actual results here before. I run a Aerodyne turbo miata with Link, custom header and 3 inch exhaust. I currently do not run an intercooler. Keep in mind that without an intercooler I run less advanced timing. I find that a 15% mix of toluene allows an increase of 2 degrees ign timing under 8LBS boost. AND, even a little more timing under more boost! That same mix with a slight increase in fuel settings (more rich) allows 2.5 degrees more timing.Now for the good stuff, A 50% mix allows an easy 5 degrees advance, and with a significant enrichment (over the settings for 93 octane gas) a HUGE power increase. I would go as far as to say that very large boost increases are possible. With absolutly no detonation.Tonight I am using 50% toluene, 17LBS boost non-intercooled, 5 degree advance 4% enrichened settings. I could go far more on boost, (however I have no way to increase the boost tonight). I have run this setup with 22LBS(non-intercooled) in the past with some tinkering to make it run right. I suspect better than 300HP at 22LBS.I am considering trying methanol also, however toluene is so cheap in large quantities that it is hard to beat.Chris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » August 11th, 2002, 8:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Top Gun: You need an intercooler to run high boost - that's no myth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"high boost" is a myth...thats is the definition of vague. Are we talking about high boost for a supercharger, maybe 10psi? How about on the turbos we use on our engines...maybe 20 lbs of boost... how about the turbos used on desiel trucks, 60psi. It is a myth, the same as the mindset that you cant run a lot of boost with high compression. I guess we should all go talk to Larry W. at Endyne and tell him that 20 lbs on 13:1 compression wont work.

TopGun · Post by **TopGun** » August 12th, 2002, 10:56 pm

I like to think of myself as ignorant rather than stupid. Please enlighten me on the subject, namely the purpose of intercoolers. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ProtegeSTS: "high boost" is a myth...thats is the definition of vague. Are we talking about high boost for a supercharger, maybe 10psi? How about on the turbos we use on our engines...maybe 20 lbs of boost... how about the turbos used on desiel trucks, 60psi. It is a myth, the same as the mindset that you cant run a lot of boost with high compression. I guess we should all go talk to Larry W. at Endyne and tell him that 20 lbs on 13:1 compression wont work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » August 12th, 2002, 11:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Top Gun: I like to think of myself as ignorant rather than stupid. Please enlighten me on the subject, namely the purpose of intercoolers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>intercooling is a way to reduce the temperatures of the intake charge. There are other ways to do the same thing. If you can design a very good combustion chamber shape, with the right cams, correct ports, and have good intake and exhaust systems optimized for the engine, there would be little need for an intercooler until you reach quite highish levels of boost for a normal roots blower. Endyn's archives can be a valueable tool to research this...i suggest you read them.

pelado · Post by **pelado** » August 14th, 2002, 12:49 am

There are other ways of dealing with boost and compression than using an intercooler.In 1962, Oldsmobile produced the Jetfire, an F-85 with an all aluminum 215 c.i. V-8 with 10.5:1 CR, turbocharger, and a carburetor. They used alcohol/water injection to lower intake charge temps and produced 1HP per c.i. The nice thing about the high CR is you still have some low end performance while waiting for the turbo to produce boost.AquaMist makes a water injection unit that varies the amount of injection with boost. These units can be bought at <A HREF="http://www.flyinmiata.com." TARGET=_blank>www.flyinmiata.com.</A> Methanol was mentioned in one post. I posted the specs of the Castrol Syntec Civic which used 43 psi boost and methanol with no intercooler. They probably had at least $50K in the engine though.........[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: pelado ]

MX3RS · Post by **MX3RS** » August 14th, 2002, 2:24 am

There are pros and cons of water injection though. You have to refill the water bottle often and if you forget to you could run without it and hurt your engine if it needs it that badly. But it is good. The water effectivley "steam cleans" the combustion chamber and if you use an alcohal mix you can obtain a higher effective octain from it. And you can use windshield washer fluid since its a mix of water and methanol and is really cheap to buy....

92RedMX3 · Post by **92RedMX3** » August 18th, 2002, 1:49 pm

To the person that was wondering what an intercooler is. Think of it as a radiator for the intake air. It goes though something that looks kinda the same and air is supposed to cool it down so that it isn't so hot going into the engine.

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » August 18th, 2002, 6:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MX3RS: There are pros and cons of water injection though. You have to refill the water bottle often and if you forget to you could run without it and hurt your engine if it needs it that badly. But it is good. The water effectivley "steam cleans" the combustion chamber and if you use an alcohal mix you can obtain a higher effective octain from it. And you can use windshield washer fluid since its a mix of water and methanol and is really cheap to buy....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Funny you mention that. Alan Wong [currently driving a turbo'd 2.8L KLDE 323 hatchback, don't remember his name on this board] had his stock block KLDE originally in a 626 with water injection. Ran out of water, engine go poof. Makes a good time to upgrade though...

MX3RS · Post by **MX3RS** » August 18th, 2002, 9:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Coleman: Funny you mention that. Alan Wong [currently driving a turbo'd 2.8L KLDE 323 hatchback, don't remember his name on this board] had his stock block KLDE originally in a 626 with water injection. Ran out of water, engine go poof. Makes a good time to upgrade though...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exaclty why it can be a pain in the a--. But it can go both ways. Its good if you keep an eye on it, but if you don't pay attention to it enough, you're gonna have problems. [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

Freq2002 · Post by **Freq2002** » August 26th, 2002, 11:09 pm

I'm currently buying parts to build a turbo/EFI engine for my other car. One of the options I've come across as far as injection cooling is Propane. LPG creates an insane amount of cooling effect & it burns clean. Use this with a variable boost controller & pressure switch system so it only comes on when you need it. Like when you're REALLY getting on it. Simply put, dial it down & take out the bottle for day to day driving, and drop it in & crank it up when you goto the strip.

OsoSlo z28 · Post by **OsoSlo z28** » August 27th, 2002, 12:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Freq2002: I'm currently buying parts to build a turbo/EFI engine for my other car. One of the options I've come across as far as injection cooling is Propane. LPG creates an insane amount of cooling effect & it burns clean. Use this with a variable boost controller & pressure switch system so it only comes on when you need it. Like when you're REALLY getting on it. Simply put, dial it down & take out the bottle for day to day driving, and drop it in & crank it up when you goto the strip.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>how would you incorporate that into a haltech e6k management system? use of an extra injector, setup similar to nitrous, or tapped into the fuel line?

Freq2002 · Post by **Freq2002** » August 27th, 2002, 9:44 am

From what I've been told & read, the best use is direct port injection, but there are other options. How you implement it is up to you and the limitations of the system you're running. An old friend used to run a drag car with a 427 Chevy engine. He used propane injection to cool the intake charge using a fogger plate off of an old N20 system. So I'm thinking it could be feasable to have a single nozzle in the manifold just downstream of the butterfly. Would have to go chat with the folks that are more into that tho, I'm just not sure.

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