Turbo for MX-3

[neverenuff]

Well with all these oppions it all makes sence when you put it all together. If this guy can come on this board and defend all that has been said then hey, I'll buy, but bean that I realy belive he cant well i'll pass. Thnx guys for all your info. I wish I new how to send this whole topic to this guy there is alot of good info on here I that I think will probly make him stop supporting this company.

[VizualXTC]

You'll never stop this guy from selling his product. Reason being. He's making money. Whether it works or not (I'm not saying either way) he will continue to sell it. <p>And for all you that say he has to prove it. What would you say if he had a dyno plot on his page showing a 10% increase in his cars performance? You'd call him a liar, and say that it's a fake dyno sheet. So it IS up to the naysayers to prove this wrong. The negative posts do make sence, but then there is no proof. Like the one guy said, "anything plastic that is subject to heat WILL deteriorate." Where is this heat comming from? If you're talking about the air it sucks in from underneath the hood, then I ask you this. If that heat is enough to deteriorate this plastic piece, why do out headlighs, and tail lights, and antenna holder, and various other items on the OUTSIDE of teh car not deteriorate? At noon on a hot summers day, althought it's 90 deg. in the air, the surface of the car is MUCH hotter. Also these turbo's that spin 2K RPS produce a hell of alot more thatn 120CFM and a hell of a lot more than a 10%-15% boost in power. And the reason car manufacturers havn't put these on their cars (if it works) is for the same reason they don't put on CAI's or TD04 turbo's with a MSD ignition, and A'PEXi VAFC. They're not always performance oriented. They have to realize what the consumer wants. And like I said before, if you went to buy a car that claimed it had 125HP before they put that thing on it, and now it has 167HP you wouldn't buy it. Why? Not because it doens't work, but because you are skeptical about it. <p>You guys are too negative. I'm not saying this is a legitimate product. Not at all. Actually it does seem a little cheap. I'm just saying not to start denouncing a product you know NOTHING about. If you can provide proof, then you have grounds to critisize. And you ask for proof. Everyone says this about the Tornado. It shows proof right on the infomercial. But you STILL call it a fake because ONE guy said it was restrictive. Since then, nobody has bought one. I hope one day you all invent something. Then you'll see how many naysayers there are. Imagine if nobody believed Ben Franklin when he "discovered" electricity. Or didn't believe Thomas Jefferson when he invented the light bulb, or didn't believe Alexander Graham Bell when he invented the telephone. They would have never tested them, and we'd be in a totally different world. <p>Again, I'm not saying this product works. I'm not trying to cause controversy. I'm just telling you all to have a positive attitude, and if you don't believe it, test it and provide proof.

[guyaverage]

Yes you are right if this guy shows me a dyno plot that shows a jump from 125HP to 167HP, on a device that I can mathematically show cant even produce enough FLOW at 4000 rpm, not to even mention BOOST at that rpm or below, I AM going to call him a liar. And yes it IS up to the person making a claim to prove themselves, its NEVER up to the skeptic to "disprove" anything. The inability to prove someone wrong does NOT make them right. I have walked on the moon. Cant prove me wrong, can you? Doesnt make that claim any more true or believeable, does it...<p>In regards to heat breaking down plastic, the heat plastic headlights and other things DO break down. And its a hell of a lot hotter under the hood on a summer day that outside. You've never seen brittle vacuum tubes? Heat damaged plug wires? Cracked intake hoses? Cracked and brittle insulation on wiring harnesses? My point was, none of this stuff is in the intake, AFT of the filter (obviously the intake hose is, but they generaly crack, they dont spin at high rpms and potentially shatter). A PLASTIC impeller spinning fast enough to produce boost, had better be one stout piece. Personally, I wouldnt take that chance. From the manufacturer, I would. From a faceless seller in the aftermarket, no way.<p>And you are right, turbos at 2000 rps produce more than 120 cfm, and more than 10-15% increase in power. But this guy is claming a 33% increase on some mythical Civic, using this little blower. My Turbo II Rx7 only gets a 24% increase with its factory turbo at around 6 lbs of boost. I see something wrong here.<p>The car manufacturers dont use devices like this and the ones you mentioned for several reasons. For one, a lot of them DONT help. If you arent running a turbo, or ultra high compression, then an 'upgraded' ignition is NOT going to increase your power. (Someone else pointed this out on another post also). A lot of stock ignitions are just fine for a turbo for that matter. A lot of chips and aftermarket ECU's on the market 'increase horsepower' by doing nothing more than removing fuel cut offs and over riding factory programmed ignition cut offs and max rpms. Why do the car manufacturers put these limits on? Because THEY have to worry about reliability, warranty claims, safety, emissions, fuel economy (CAFE), CARB, reputation, and a whole host of other crap that they know they will eventually have to face to get it to market. Not to mention, like you said, what the customer wants. And moreso, what the MANUFACTURER wants. Mazda wasnt going to produce a $18,000 2.5 liter supercharged Mx3 that goes 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, because it would severely limit their ability to make any money on a $38,000 Rx7 that would be only a tad quicker.<p>You mentioned the tornado. The 'proof' is on the informercial? Good grief dude and no offense but if THAT is all you need to be convinced, then I have some moon rocks from my latest trip there that I would like to sell you. The difference in Jefferson, Franklin, and Bell is that they PROVED their ideas and products worked. They SHOWED us. Making a claim, backing it up with a couple of unverifiable testimonials, no mass market advertising, then selling the product thru a PRIVATE on-line auction? This smells worse than a dead elephant in the African sun. If I had a product that produced even 10-15 HP and could be fitted to work on any car, and sell it for $135, I would shout it out from the highest mountain. The TD04s, cold air intakes, hi-flow catalysts, etc etc have been SHOWN and PROVEN to make a difference. This guy has a lot of work to do to catch up to this point.<p>I wouldnt say we DONT KNOW ANYTHING about this product. I would think the average reader of these forums is better educated than average about the effects of boost, timing, airflow, and various other things and how they effect performance. It didnt take me 3 minutes with a calculator, sitting in my little cubicle at work at 7:00 am at my desk, to figure out this blower doesnt have the airflow necessary to not even be restrictive at a relatively low rpm. Not to even mention produce BOOST at that rpm. <p>I would guess you guys defending this product are skeptical yourselves, otherwise you would have plunked down your cash and bought one by now. Prove us skeptics wrong, buy one, put it on, show someone in your car club that it DOES work, get the word out, and make fools of us naysayers. Do that, and I'll buy one. Hell I'll buy three. I'll tell everyone I know, SHOW them, and make this guy more money than he can imagine.<p>All I want is VERIFIABLE proof that it makes a difference. And that doesnt mean ME buying one, taking the time to install it and test it, all at the same time taking the risk of it not working and trying to get my MONEY BACK from him if it doesnt work (Good LUCK). He needs to give one to a reputable testing board, or a higher profile magazine or car club, let them test it out. For the money it takes him to build one of these, if this thing really works, it would be a BARGAIN for him and the cheapest advertising he could possibly buy.<p>[ May 18, 2003: Message edited by: guyaverage ]</p>

[gsrbomb]

My friend buy one and the result is: the fan, too cheap,broke and the intake breathe some of plastic pieces... Valves was damaged and the bill of this "modification" if we can spell it like that, is 3000$.Don't buy this sh**!

[FMSMX3]

Vizualxtc,<p>What do you mean "ONE GUY" said the tornado didn't work because it was too restrictive. Sport Compact Car magazine did a whole article on the Tornado a while back. They did dyno tests with and without it installed and it did not improve power. If need be I will find that article for you. It should be on their website but not everything from old issues is up yet, and I don't have time to look right now. Of course they are not the last word on this, but I consider them reputable. A lot more so than the infomercial trying to sell the product.<p>Your whole argument doesn't make sense IMO, even talking about any product not just this one. Yes people shouldn't dismiss something because one person says it doesn't work. Neither should they rush out and by something on the claims of one person, especially the seller of the product.<p>Just because a person doesn't actually own this exact product or even one like it, doesn't mean they can't prove that it doesn't work. After all we live on earth the thing still has to conform to the rules of physics, thermodynamics, chemistry, and the properties of electricity. I am not saying I could prove it doesn't work using formulas right now. But I know that it has been demonstrated in the past that there is no way it could get enough electricity to spin fast enough to create boost.<p>I don't know why you are using this product to make a point. I understand people are sometimes negative on products simply based on reputation. Perfect example is Thomas Knight Turbos. If they came out with a real bolt on turbo kit for our cars right now that was reasonable priced, it wouldn't be our job to prove it worked. It would be the manufactures job to get it prove by someone reputable. I garuntee you if someone posted on this board about a new kit from them a lot of people would be skeptical about buying it and with good reason. Reputation is everything when it comes to products. Why do you think everyone owns something Sony? Becuase people reckonize that the product will be at least half way decent and should do what it claims. I'm sorry if good product gets missed because it doesn't have the reputation, but that's the way it is.<p>[ May 21, 2003: Message edited by: FMSMX3 ]</p>

[guyaverage]

Check out this link to Ebay....Another electric turbo seller. Looks like he gave a fairly honest opinion on it. Current bid is only about $11 (4 days left to go though), anyone out there with access to a dyno brave enough to buy this and try it and settle this argument once and for all? (If I had free access to a dyno I would do it myself)...<p>electric "turbo" on ebay<p>[ May 22, 2003: Message edited by: guyaverage ]</p>