help with codes

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mitmaks
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help with codes

Post by mitmaks »

I had CEL for a few seconds and then it goes off, car runs like it's missing but does not die.
I pulled codes and it has
1 long blink and then 7 short blinks
and then it has
2 long blinks and 4 short blinks and then just repeats with 1 long 7 long...
What are these codes. I think one of them is crank angle sensor (one by the oil dipstick)
Interesting since I've replaced it couple years ago, already went bad? :evil:
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mikeinaus
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Re: help with codes

Post by mikeinaus »

17 LHO2S inversion error Yes
24 RHO2S inversion error Yes
Codes 15 & 17: LHO2S Inactivation and/or Inversion

Codes 23 & 24: RHO2S Inactivation and/or Inversion

Sensor Purpose:

The oxygen sensors are located in the downpipes in the exhaust manifolds. There are two sensors, one on each bank (California cars may use additional sensors). The radiator-side of the engine is known as the "left" side and codes 15 and 17 apply to it. The firewall side of the engine is known as the "right" side and codes 23 and 24 apply to it.

The sensors are used to tell the PCME what the oxygen content in the exhaust stream is with respect to the ambient. From this, the PCME makes corrections to the injector pulse widths to maintain stoichiometry (i.e. about 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture). The sensors are used only when hot (they use heater elements to speed heat-up and reduce cold-start emissions) and when in "closed loop" mode (i.e. WOT is not closed loop).

A sensor will generally produce about 500mV output at stoich. When rich, the output voltage reaches a value above 500mV and when lean, the voltage falls below 500mV. The PCME tries to maintain 500mV average O2 sensor voltage so the averaged mixture is about 14.7:1.

The O2 sensors have 4-position connectors on them:

RHO2S Wire Colour LHO2S Wire Colour Purpose

R/BK R/BK Heater element supply from main relay
BK BK Heater element return (ground)
BK/Y DB/W Sensor output
BK/DB BK/DB Sensor return



Fault Description:

Inactivation errors 15 (left) & 23 (right) indicate the sensor never "woke up" from cold. Cold sensors produce little or no output voltage. Once the engine RPM exceeds 1500RPM, the PCME expects to see the voltage on the sensor(s) go above 500mV within 100 seconds. If it does not, the inactivation code gets set.

Inversion errors 17 (left) and 24 (right) occur when the sensor stops responding to the PCMEs adjustments to the A/F ratio. Inversion refers to the sensor swinging back and forth (or inverting) across 500mV as the PCME alternately makes the A/F ratio slightly richer or slightly leaner. If the sensor does not mirror theses changes, the PCME will set the inversion code.

PCME Fault Control Moding:

When any of codes 15, 17, 23 and 24 are set, the PCME falls out of closed loop mode and instead relies on calculations rather than feedback to control the A/F mixture. The effect will be lowered gas mileage, smelly exhaust, carbon accumulation etc.

Memorization:

This code is memorized in the PCME non-volatile memory.

Things To Check When Diagnosing:

The generally accepted solution for these errors is to replace the offending sensor, assuming no connector or wiring fault exists.

For codes 15 and 17, replace the left (radiator-side) O2 sensor. For codes 23 and 24, replace the right (firewall-side) O2 sensor.
1 long could be 10 which is intake air sensor. although 7 long would be 70 and as far as i know there is no code 70...

crank sensor code is 2 so 2 quick flashes. hows your mileage? is it a constant misfire? how old are your ignition parts? could also be a bad injector. have you found out what cylinder isnt firing?
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Re: help with codes

Post by mitmaks »

I'm not sure which cylinder is not firing. My plugs are ~10-20K miles on them, new cap/rotor, new ignition wires.
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Re: help with codes

Post by mitmaks »

Anything else that could be causing the problem, bad gas, moisture in the tank? I know I did pour some Sea Foam in the tank a couple tanks ago, maybe that's causing problem?
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mikeinaus
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Re: help with codes

Post by mikeinaus »

is it constant or does it come and go? try pulling your plug wires 1 at a time while its iding and find out what cylinder isnt firing. it will be the one that doesnt affect idle when its pulled. you could then pull that plug and crank the starter once or twice with the plug out. if you smell gas in the cylinder you know the injector is pulsing and can look elsewhere.

how old is your fuel filter? i guess its possible the seafoam dislodged some sludge and clogged an injector but i think that would be unlikely.
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Re: help with codes

Post by mitmaks »

Fuel filter was changed couple years ago, new battery, new crank position sensor 2 years ago
I did inspect spark plugs couple weeks ago, they're still in good shape. I could change them to see if it'll help.
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Re: help with codes

Post by mitmaks »

mikeinaus wrote:is it constant or does it come and go? try pulling your plug wires 1 at a time while its iding and find out what cylinder isnt firing. it will be the one that doesnt affect idle when its pulled. you could then pull that plug and crank the starter once or twice with the plug out. if you smell gas in the cylinder you know the injector is pulsing and can look elsewhere.

how old is your fuel filter? i guess its possible the seafoam dislodged some sludge and clogged an injector but i think that would be unlikely.
It seems to come and go. Today I went to fill up and poured can of Techron fuel injector cleaner in there. Seems to run good right now.
It does seem to run crappy on colder/wet days, today was 50F and no rain.
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mikeinaus
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Re: help with codes

Post by mikeinaus »

if it happens only on wet days its more then likely electrical related. my car has a similar problem but it only happens after the car has been warmed up then left sitting for 20-30min and will misfire for a couple minutes. i think my problem is related to my distributor, but im getting the same problem with my spare dizzy so im thinking it may be a faulty injector.

are any of the connectors that have to do with your ignition corroded? im doubtful its your plugs if they are only 20,000m old, are they ngk v power? it may be worth changing them as thats cheap but theyd look bad if they were the cause. first thing you need to do is find out what cylinder it is. then you can start to figure out the problem. that is unless you have access to a lab scope which you could pinpoint the cause fairly easy when the problem occurs...
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Re: help with codes

Post by mitmaks »

Also happens on dry days. I've checked for spark and it has spark and replaced spark plugs. Should I replace both o2 sensors
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mikeinaus
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Re: help with codes

Post by mikeinaus »

couldnt hurt, your getting the codes so they should be replaced... denso's are the ones you want, either oem or denso universal work. ive had alot of bad luck with other brands and i would only ever buy denso's in the future.
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Re: help with codes

Post by mitmaks »

As I drive car it feels like it hesitates to accelerate, there's moments where I'm accelerating and it just jerks like if I'm letting out clutch too early.
It just doesn't make any sense that both o2 sensors would go out at the same time, car has only 118K miles
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Re: help with codes

Post by kyser182 »

Refering to o2 sensor wiring. I have no mulnex plug.
Wire colors are
1. white/red line
2. Red/blue line
and 2 wires that are black with red every inch or so..

Any help? Lol
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wagZE
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Re: help with codes

Post by wagZE »

I had the same problem on an mx6 I changed the fuel rails & it went away.
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Re: help with codes

Post by mitmaks »

Ok, went to Harbor Freight and picked up fuel pressure gauge and measured fuel psi and it's where it should be at. I guess I will buy o2 sensors and swap them out. There are some Beck/Arnley o2 sensors on Rockauto that are on clearance.
p.s. What do you know, it was 70F today and clear and car ran pretty good
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mikeinaus
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Re: help with codes

Post by mikeinaus »

i havnt used beck arnley but ive tried 4 bosch sensors and 2 ngk's and had problems with both brands. the last set i got was some universal denso's and they've worked great.
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