A Realistic look at MX-3's

General Mazda MX-3 Discussions
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Ryan
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A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by Ryan »

I don't think this thread will go over well, but its 1:00 AM, and I want to.


Have you ever taken a step back from your baby, and looked at it with fresh eyes? From another breed of car persons eyes?

I spend a lot of time with engineers, and engineers like cars. (As a matter of fact we're building one. http://www.umsae.com/formula) So I talk a lot about engine/driveline, suspension, aero, brakes, and controls. Thats all a car really is.

I look at my MX-3. Its a quick car now, even by modern standards, but it has issues.

#1: Macpherson suspension. This suspension set up is used for one reason and one reason only: Its cheap.
The design does not offer anything nice as far as a race car goes. If they had done double wishbone, like Honda, it would have been much superior.

#2: Unibody. Once again, cheap. The amounts of chassis flex are incredible, which again yeilds messy handling. A full roll cage would make this car all the more nimble. Don't forget to actually fasten the strut mounts to the car, too, not with some crappy stamped sheet steel strut towers.

#3: Brakes. The system isn't bad, but it isn't great either. The rubber bushing thing, and the slide pins... whatever. The pad wear poorly inside/outside because of the crappy frame, and the pins wear them top bottom... Just cheap and poorly thought out. If we had a decent big brake kit available, this could be remedied, but the Wilwood kit costs more than my chassis did.

#4: Aero. Never mind, Its actually not bad at all. The wing options likely change it up a lot.

#5 Misc issues. All the s--- that breaks. Disties, power windows, crappy windshield nozzles, square bolts on trailing arms, square bolt in shift linkage, cheap gas door, squeaky hatch, etc etc.

#6 Transmission. I don't know what they were thinking with the 1-2 transition, and 5th gear. Yeah, efficiency of the motor at that RPM, but its just seems too much.

#7 Tune. Stock tune isn't really that great. Lots to be gained from a proper tune, both milage and power. The stock one is just safe, Mazda didn't push it much.

Basically, I conclude that it is built like a grocery getter. It is built with a lot of cheap parts and technology. This is unfortunate, but basically true. They just patched it with some neat and exciting things.

#1 The V6 option. Boasts like race car, sounds like race car, goes like race car. Shame the KL wasn't a factory option, the car would have sold like hot cakes, with little extra cost to Mazda.

#1.1 The VRIS. Beats the crap out of VTEC if you ask me. Plus its simple compared to that crap, and it works very well.

#2 The interior design. Although a bit outdated, they kept it very driver oriented. I don't find a lot of cars whose interiors I like better than my MX-3, with the early style buckets and early dash. Simple, driver oriented. It just feels good. I smile every time I sit in it. I believe this is what makes Mazda worthwhile. They actually know how to connect driver and car.

#3 TTL's. Although its not the greatest, its a cool little advantage to keep it neutral.

#4 Wheels. Our factory ally's are awesome. Light and strong. The 5 spokes are sexy, too.

#5 Overall form. Look at the other coupes offered at the time in the same price range. Nissan NX, 240, Toyo Paseo, Celica, MR2, Integra, Civic, CX, CRX, Lude, Tibby, Eclipse, Talon, Escort,..... most ugly next to a clean MX. Maybe thats just opinion talking, but you can't deny it is definitely one of the better looking ones (others being Lude, 240 & MR2 IMO).


Yay, now I feel like sleeping. See how you all hate on me tomorrow :P
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Black '93 BP RS - wrecked, parted, scrapped.
Green GS - Sold.
Black GS - Summer DD/Race car - Fancy KLZE
Red GS - K8-ATX -> MTX-KLDE - Frakencar. Scrapped
White GS - Rusty. Parts. Scrapped
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2002 BMW 325Xi - sold
2003 Forester Xti - EJ20K swapped.
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ethand
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by ethand »

I must say, I agree on pretty much every point you raised. Except perhaps the alloys - I'm not a massive fan... ;)
And with Aero, I had previously heard that the 30x/mx3 had a drag coefficient of .34 or something, which was one of the lowest for its time...??
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by DeadMaker »

Honda crx has double wishbone but still sucks on handle..My friend has a vtec model and i am saying to you from a first experience..
Black Mazda Mx3 Rs 1997 B6DE
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Ryan
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by Ryan »

Ethand, you're right, All I see referenced everywhere online is 0.32. I had read 0.4 a few years ago. I'll change that. 0.32 is respectable...
Now with Moderator power!

Black '93 BP RS - wrecked, parted, scrapped.
Green GS - Sold.
Black GS - Summer DD/Race car - Fancy KLZE
Red GS - K8-ATX -> MTX-KLDE - Frakencar. Scrapped
White GS - Rusty. Parts. Scrapped
1997 BMW M3 - my summer baby
2002 BMW 325Xi - sold
2003 Forester Xti - EJ20K swapped.
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by Nd4SpdSe »

You're analysing and criticizing 25yr old car technology and comparing it to new? The car was designed and built before you were born, imagine what engineering students learned back then? Betcha it's not even comparable to what you're learning today, not by a long shot. Things were tried, hindsight is 20/20, and look how well the Mazda3 is doing.
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
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Ryan
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by Ryan »

None of the suggestions I listed weren't around 20 years ago, actually I didn't compare it to anything new did I?

I'm not saying they should have been using rheomag struts or CF components.... just a decent caliper design, some sort of multilink non-econobox suspension, A stiffer chassis design, you know, actually build it like a race car.
Now with Moderator power!

Black '93 BP RS - wrecked, parted, scrapped.
Green GS - Sold.
Black GS - Summer DD/Race car - Fancy KLZE
Red GS - K8-ATX -> MTX-KLDE - Frakencar. Scrapped
White GS - Rusty. Parts. Scrapped
1997 BMW M3 - my summer baby
2002 BMW 325Xi - sold
2003 Forester Xti - EJ20K swapped.
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by Nd4SpdSe »

Isn't the caliper design Porsche-derived? The TTL system was used on the Rx7's. Personally, by a technical and potential standpoint, I like the idea of VTEC much better. Personally, why can't you use VTEC and VRIS?
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
2001 Nissan Frontier SE - The Frontrailer : Expedition/Off-Road Trailer Project
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by crazycanadian »

DeadMaker wrote:Honda crx has double wishbone but still sucks on handle..My friend has a vtec model and i am saying to you from a first experience..
Your friend probably has it set up all wrong... Check out how an ST 90-91 civic Si gets set up for autocross...
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by Ryan »

I have never heard that about the brakes before, but i SERIOUSLY doubt it. Our calipers have one of the shittiest designs I've seen.

I do like the TTL's, thats why I put them in the section of stuff I like.

VTEC and VRIS are just ways of getting more air into the chamber. Together, they'd be a mean combination. You could put a massive spike in your powerband if you wanted, haha. I just like the design flexibility of VRIS. VTEC is on or off, VRIS can be multi-stage, and used over a much broader RPM range. Vtec feels cooler (which sells cars), VRIS is more functional.

And I agree the CRX makes a mean track machine. Any car will suck with old worn out stuff, and a bad alignment, and most importantly, a bad driver....
Now with Moderator power!

Black '93 BP RS - wrecked, parted, scrapped.
Green GS - Sold.
Black GS - Summer DD/Race car - Fancy KLZE
Red GS - K8-ATX -> MTX-KLDE - Frakencar. Scrapped
White GS - Rusty. Parts. Scrapped
1997 BMW M3 - my summer baby
2002 BMW 325Xi - sold
2003 Forester Xti - EJ20K swapped.
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by Nd4SpdSe »

I love VTEC for the cam-profile changing ability, where you can put whatever aggressive profile you wish on the secondary and by an emissions standpoint, it wouldn't matter if it dumps liquid fuel out the exhaust cause it wouldn't be tested. Also makes it easier to idle and you don't have to sacrifice the low end torque. Imagine if your KL had just the regular cam profile and at whatever time you design to set it up as, either by a RPM-based controller, could even include how much throttle is being used, that you're motor can instantly switch to a 272* cam profile? Would be insane.
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
2001 Nissan Frontier SE - The Frontrailer : Expedition/Off-Road Trailer Project
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by mitmaks »

I love my mx-3, if someone else doesn't like it-it's their problem.
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by mitmaks »

Probably worst thing about Mx-3 is crappy headlights, however that can be fixed with projectors and some HID's/upgraded wiring.
Only other cars interior I like is first gen Eclipses, it's built like plan cockpit and is quite comfortable and safe in case of an accident.
Thins I do like are:
Awesome handling, I can take sharp corners at 45mph and not even feel it, lane changes are quick
Styling is nice, car is cute lol As long as you don't put a stupid body kit on it it looks nice, maybe some rims and lower it to make it look even more elegant and improve handling.
Interior design is great, simple and practical, gauges are where they should be. Only thing I wish it would come with extra gauge for oil pressure instead of light.
Magnum s/s lines, strut bars, carbon fiber bezel, indiglow gauge, Sony Xplod, inverted c/f hood, SRD lower tie bar '93 GS SE '95 Cobra SVT #2722 '68 Charger R/T 440
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by marcdh »

Worst thing for me is rust, and the complications of prevention and treatment thanks to the unibody. The rest I can live with or work around. No hate here about that. The same floorplan as the gtx/r would have been nice too :)
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by mitmaks »

marcdh wrote:Worst thing for me is rust, and the complications of prevention and treatment thanks to the unibody. The rest I can live with or work around. No hate here about that. The same floorplan as the gtx/r would have been nice too :)
Rust depends on where you live at. I have 0 rust on mine and I drive it during winter. Of course they don't use very harsh chemicals on the roads here and we have low humidity here compared to southern states.
Magnum s/s lines, strut bars, carbon fiber bezel, indiglow gauge, Sony Xplod, inverted c/f hood, SRD lower tie bar '93 GS SE '95 Cobra SVT #2722 '68 Charger R/T 440
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Re: A Realistic look at MX-3's

Post by Mooneggs »

I'm no engineer, but I've worked on my mx extensively as well as helping to work on my friend's cars and I agree with everything Ryan listed... I also agree with all the 'likes'.

This car has been a friend to me. I like that Mazda named it the "Presso" which means friend in Japanese :mrgreen:

I like that nobody knows what kind of car I have.
I like that my car is 20 years old and the styling is still up to date with newer cars.
I like the JDM OEM bodykit and the MS options.
I like the visibility of what's around me when driving (using OEM R100 mirror glass in both sides).
I like the comfort of the 92/93 style seats.
I love the amount of interior hatch space with the folded down backseat (or no rear interior at all (easy to remove).
I love the OEM 5 spokes - very light and very simple/clean.
I love how my car sounds. Is it a crotch rocket or a ferrari?
I love how fast my car is compared to alot of OEM turbo versions of cars.
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