Cranks, puts a bit - but will not start.

[spete701]

So a few times in the past - my car was difficult to start.
The day I picked it up. Cranked it for a about 10 seconds, and no start. Put the "gas" to the floor and cranked a while longer - and eventually it started.

It did this again - replace spark plugs. A mechanic did this for me, for the "rock bottom" price of $250.
After that I bought tools.

The idle was a bit funny, since my trip to Mr Lube. Maybe I have timing issues, which was right after the spark plugs were changed.

Again one day, it would not start. I removed the distributor cap - cleaned the 6 contacts in the distributor cap. -and that got it running. I replaced the cap and rotor. And I was OK for about a two weeks.

Every now and then I would turn the key and starting would be bit of PITA. But I would eventually start.

Until one day, I got up to go to work, and it's one of those places where if you are not on time you get into trouble. I was essentially sent home after cabbing it in late. I went home, and turned the key one more time.
Vroom. - It starts. I had a new fuel filter, I put that in. I had put in a quart of a injector cleaner, the day before and the car seemed to really like that stuff. - Acceleration was "smooth"

My car drove well until today. This afternoon I tried to start the car - the starter seems to be turning the engine. Every now and then I can hear it - begging to start, I think I can hear the sound of exhaust leaving the tail pipe, for brief moments. But nothing. It simply will not start. And now my battery is dead. Now I need to get a battery charged, somehow.

I was thinking this may be a bad distributor. It's a common problem, I've done some searches, I've heard of and HEI mod, studied the wiring diagram - but I don't have the tools to mount the ignition module. Further I don't want to spend the day trying to solve the wrong problem. I just purchased this thing. It was 1400 and with registering, insuring, and the distributor cap, rotor, plugs, fuel filter, new air filter, PCV valve, brakes, and some suspension work, I'm a little short on cash.

I really don't like the city transit, and I'm afraid that my neighbors will call the city to impound my car if it's not fixed promptly.

Any tricks - tips would be greatly appreciated.

[spete701]

Do you think this is a problem with the distributor? How could I tell?

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Ok, first, you need to stop thinking what it "may" be, and start working to find what it actually is. Otherwise, you're bound to spend a whole lot of cash.
Are you getting a CEL? If you are, have you pulled the code(s)?
If you have no CEL, start with the basics:

Take your battery to the nearest auto part store, and have it checked, and SLOW charged. If they tell you it's gonna be done in an hour, take it somewhere else. Don't EVER let them fast charge a dead battery. It should take them at least 18 to 20 hrs to charge it.
Take your plugs out, and check the gap. It should be .039" to .043".
If you have no CEL, you know your sensors are OK. Check the connectors on the side of the disty, and their wires. You're looking for loose connections or frayed/broken wires.
Put the spark plugs back. Ckeck that you're getting a good, strong spark in all the wires. If you're not, get a piece of an old spark plug wire (do NOT use a normal wire, or you will remember me), connect one end to ground, and, with the wires off the disty, see if you get a good spark from the disty's contacts, when you put the end of the grounded wire close enough. If you get a good spark, there, replace the spark plug wires. If you still don't get a good spark, check your cap and rotor.
If you do have a good spark off the spark plug wires, check your fuel pump, and, if it's working properly, check (or replace) your fuel filter.

If none of that works, let us know, and we'll take it from there.

[spete701]

No CEL already checked.
Changed the fuel filter - a few days ago.
New Rotor - new Cap - checked again.

No spark - I don't have an extra spark plug wire that's kicking around to test from the distributor contacts to a grounded part of the car.

Checked resistance on my spark plug cables - give or take/same on all.

I may replace them anyways - they look cheap - but I don't think that's why it's not starting.
Will leave spark plugs - for now, pro mechanic did that, for me. I bought a charger, and trickle charged the battery. I just can't take a car battery on the bus. Run a voltmeter over it after charging and cranking the engine for over a minute battery reads 12.4 Volts. Should be enough to turn the engine.

But Flark the whah? No spark?

Lets look at this ignition system -

[spete701]

I can hear the fuel pump. I can hear it "fuel related stuff" sound like it's building pressure when my room mate cranks the engine.

Lets go outside and get my hands dirty, if only to look manly.

Oh, and HELP! I have no freaking clue about what I'm doing.

Thank you kindly.

[Ryan]

Since you're running intermittently, I'd definitely be looking at ignition.

Spark plug leads should not be all about the same. spec is 16 k ohm / ft. You need a measuring tape and a calculator to do this properly.

It takes a lot for plugs to stop the car from running, I wouldn't look at them.

To check actual spark, you don't need a spare spark plug.. anyway, why don't you have a plug socket? They come in pretty much every tool kit you could ever buy... Just hold the spark plug lead (wire) close to a ground. It should jump maybe half an inch from the end of the wire without a plug in it.

Spark plugs don't make sparks. They just route the electrical potential to make a spark in a useable, predictable way.

Distributor is a common problem.. but without CEL #2 or #3, I wouldn't look at it.

If you have access to a spare... I'd go for it.

There's many many potential issues... I'm starting to like helping people with diagnostics less and less, because the probability I'm completely wrong is disturbing to me...

[newdriver92]

i've had pretty much the situation as u but thankfully my pops is a mechanic and all we replaced was the mass air flow sensor. and something to do with the distributor cap its not the router its behind it has a condencer on it and two plugs on top

[Ryan]

a condenser is part of the air conditioning system....

And if you meant connector, that IS the distributor you speak of.

[newdriver92]

yaaa thats it

[spete701]

This is partly to organize my thoughts.


Well the car started today. It has a number of problems.
No CEL - I will check again.

I cut out the wires that connected to the stock ignition coil on the distributor - the three pronged plug - they were brittle and had cracks all through the insulation in three or four places on the ground, the blue power plug line to the distributor coil was in the best condition, and only had two good cracks. I spliced some 16 AWG cable through the wire harness to where I severed the old wires. - It's a hack.

Cranked it, took about a minute of cranking to get it going with a fully charged battery. (Trickle Charged)
It ran very well until It warmed up. The car revved up to about 1800 RPM the exhaust stank like gas for a while blowing white, after a few minutes it went down to about 900 RPM. I ran it for about 10 minutes checked again and the exhaust was not visible. (was it just flooded?)

I ran a spark plug tester over all the wires. The plug wire going to the number 1 cylinder's spark plug was not as consistent as the others.
The car was misfiring. Interestingly, the Idle was rock solid, for about 25 minutes or so before it started to jump around a bit.
When the car is warm the misfire was inconsistent. When the car did warm up - I had a lack of power. The engine temp gauge on the dash read at
2/3 - 3/4 towards the hot. I slowed down a bit stopped for a while to let it cool down, and the power was back. Idle was a little better, but I was hunting a bit.

I'm not sure If I mentioned this - but the only time the car is really hard to start is during a cold start. Once the car had had been running it was no problem starting.

Next, I'm thinking of doing a coolant flush. I want to check the #1 spark plug cable - after I looked at the #3 cable I noticed that the boot where it connects and insulates the coupler between the plug-wire and distributor was out of place, preventing the cable from fitting into the distributor, some how it had shifted.

As it stands. Both reliability, predictability of the car remain elusive. The car does not seem to be cooling correctly. And the idle bounces around a bit after the car has been driven, I can stop, and let the engine idle, but the idle will not return to 650-700RPM.

Cold starting issue
- poor ignition module/distributor coil? (poor - insufficient- spark?)
- mechanical timing is off?
- low fuel pressure? (filter just changed, I can hear the pump going, and when the car did start I think it was flooded)
- faulty battery, alternator (battery tests at 12.5 V, head lights are bright - consistent while revving the engine.)
- poor installation of plug wires?


overheating issue
- cracked gasket (expansion/contraction loss of vacuum?)
- coolant leak, and old coolant was watered down by the old owner.
- thermostat issue?
- I can smell coolant from time to time. Exhaust is clean after warm up. I think its a leak in the heater core

[spete701]

I'm going for another drive. - will keep you posted.
I think my camera is still in the car.

[mikeetown]

try starting the car multiple times with the VAF unplugged. If it starts over and over without any no starts (it will run kinda crappy but thats not the point) then you could possibly say your VAF is on its way out. VAF plug could be dirty, i brake cleaned mine and it only took 2 mins to clean it up nicely.

Your fuel pressure regulator can sometime go! If its not working or kinda working u can get this problem. Try replacing it. (its on your fuel rail obviously and has two 10mm blots holding it on. Make sure u take the fuel line off carefully and also know that unless u releive the fuel pressure, you'll get a bit of a mess.. This fuel pressure regualtor HAS TO WORK 100% for the car to even run.

There are some EGR solenoids under the throttle body. If they are not working, your car wont run with the EGR plugged in i think. I would unplugg the EGR for a while (deal with the CEL light lol) and see if it starts all the time. I'm not sure if this issure is correct on my part but i had problems with this when i bought my v6.

You should try seeing if the disty is in good working order. It weird but i rebuilt mine which took a load off.

I hope this helps.

[spete701]

Oh, man - not again.

Charging the battery now.
It rained last night.


How do we unplug an EGR?

[mikeetown]

Oh, man - not again.

Charging the battery now.
It rained last night.


How do we unplug an EGR?

lol. You think maybe rain is leaking somewhere. Ive heard of deep puddles and such causing a car to do funny things like this. I had a 88 chev v8 do this to me before. It was electrical short for me.

[spete701]

VAF-zilla!

According to the shop manual you can test the resistance on the VAF.

Using something called a "Circuit Tester." I have a multimeter. I do not have a circuit tester.

THA E2 E2 VC VS
pin1 pin2 pin3 pin4 pin5

When I read the resistance between THA and E2 (either E2 pin) I get around 18500 Ohms.

That's something to do with an intake air-thermosensor. I tested the VAF at room temperature. - and the chart says that 18500 Ohms is ok, if it's -20c or about 0 degrees for our US readers.

Could my car think it's getting more air than it is?
Lets search and cross reference some other posts.