[GI] Poly bushings: Making a Comeback in Feb 09'!!!

[wytbishop]

Here is my plan. I have a complete set of SuperPro bushings on it's way to me. I will have them in my hands before the end of the week. I will first remove the control arms from my parts car to verify the sizes of each bushing. Once I know that they are correct and that fitment is good I will produce drawings of the bushings adding whatever changes I think may provide improvement. For example I know that some of the SuperPro bushings are 2 piece for ease of installation.

A company in Calgary AB called Fidelity Machine is going to provide me a quote to create the molds. Another comany in Calgary called Duraprene Industries has given me a quote to pour the parts.

Once I have a quote I will relay to you all a list of prices. If the price is unreasonably high for some reason and nobody wants to buy, then that will be the end of that. No harm, nothing lost. If the price is good, you will be allowed to order whatever you need. If you don't want a complete set you will be able to get only the bushings you would like. I will create an email account specifically for receiving orders. Once downpayments have been received I will order the molds from Fidelity. I will not ask for final payment until parts are in production.

I have emailed Jeff and he has said that once I have details to his satisfaction he will allow me to offer this to the forum. I haven't spoken to anyone yet about my payment plan, but I want all of your feedback. If you think the payment idea is a bad one let me know. If you're not really interested in doing this buy let me know that too. Noralta said that they don't need a minimum order, but obviously I would prefer to have a significant response.

I will be seeking to make a small profit from this venture, but I think that there will be no problem making it more affordable than the previously available alternatives and a portion of each purchase will be donated to MX-3.com. Please tell me your honest thoughts.

Thanks,
Charlie

UPDATE Aug 15, 08: I have created a list of interested parties I have at this time. If you're not on the list and wish you were just let me know. If you are on the list and wish you weren't let me know that too. No one is confirmed and nothing is required at this time. I'm just trying to get my head around it. Quantity will be important to pricing, so if you've been lurking and waiting to see, please let me know you're interested.

UPDATE Sept 11, 08: I got some very encouraging news from one of the vendors I'm working with that leads me to believe that this project will move forward. I have to address some design issues and rethink the lubrication issue, but I am 90% sure now that I can have these made for <$400 for a complete kit. I will continue to update.

UPDATE Sept 15, 08: I found out today in an other thread that the RS has a different diameter rear LCA bushing. I wasn't aware that this was the case, however it's not a suprise. The rear LCA bushings I have in my set from SuperPro are too small for my GS. That means I'll need another mold to ensure that the RS guys get everything they need.

There have been some obstacles in the design of the bushings. The more complex the mold the more expensive it will obviously be. Even the simplest mold is still in the hundreds of dollars and 9 or 10 are required. The only way this is going to be even remotely feasible is if the bushings are cast from simple, single cavity molds. The problem that causes is that as the poly cures, it shrinks. Any raised feature on the center of the mold (like an internal grease groove) would make it impossible to remove the product from the mold without damaging it. The only way to get internal grease grooves into the bushing then would be to have them machined into the poly after casting...which would be very expensive. The solution is to make each bushing a symetrical, two part bushing with grooves open to the inside. That allows the groove to be cast into the bushing and still let the bushing slide off of the center post of the mold. This will also ease installation of the new bushings.

So anyway, I have a pretty well finalized design. I have a manufacturer that I believe I can count on. I should have a detailed quote in a week or two. Then I will set pricing. I am probably going to sell this first round at a loss. The upside for me is that I will own the molds so the next round of sales will have no overhead.

UPDATE Oct 03, 08 - The manufacturer of the molds is preparing the quote. Apparently he's very busy as he's getting married next week and naturally, this project isn't their top priority. I don't know if I'll get the quote today, but when I do get it, I will post final costs to you, my valued customers, within a couple of days.

UPDATE Oct. 06, 08 - I have received the quote from the manufacturer of the molds and it is in line with my projections. We're not all the way home yet, but it's a big step forward. I require 2 more pieces of information before I can crunch the final numbers. I should be able to get them this week and have selling prices posted next week. I will post the cost of individual bushings so that you can select only the ones you need. Thank you for your patience.

UPDATE Oct. 24, 08 - I have all the pertinent information now and will spend some time this weekend working out the numbers. The Group Buy will definitely go provided the participation remains good. Look for a significant post regarding design, pricing etc. later in the weekend.

UPDATE Oct. 27, 08 - Go to this post to see the final details.

UPDATE Nov. 20, 08 - The new quote I was hoping for is not going to go through. Pricing will remain as indicated in the GB thread.

UPDATE Nov. 28, 08 - I have spoken with both of my vendors and they are very understanding. The current economic climate being what it is, they have no problem waiting a few months to move forward on this project. Given what I've heard from those who have responded (and from how many people I haven't heard from) I think it's best if we revisit this in February. I am ready to go forward as soon as interest is rekindled. I have all the manufacturing lined up and the pricing will not change.

Interested Members:
wytbishop
marcdh
onlytrueromeo
fowljesse
mx-3_4evr
MazdaManiacMx3
RS_OBD'oh_2
rece
ElectricEnergy
tehbrookzorz
Flyer
93_MX3 GS
Turbulence23
Towona

[marcdh]

I will 95% be up for this - assuming the price will be sensible. It's great to see people putting the effort in like this Good luck and fair play making your small profit

[onlytrueromeo]

As one of the original people interested in this, I'm still in Good luck drafting everything up. If you need/want help using autocad let me know - I mostly do civil stuff, but I'm pretty good with computers. If you're using inventor, my friend uses it almost daily (I have no experience with inventor as I'm civil).

If the price doesn't go too high I could help give a deposit or something if you need one.

What is the list of bushings this will include? Or are we not sure yet? I know we want to strive for "complete set" but it'd be nice to make a list so everyone is on the same page

[EZ_4_FUN]

Inventor is autodesk 3D CAD right?

I am very good at SolidWorks 08. If you want me to draft them up in 3D just let me know.

[onlytrueromeo]

Yeah, inventor is basically 3d autocad - but its not exactly the same thing as far as I know - its a standalone program where Autocad 3D using the same engine.

I'm not so good with the 3d stuff, as I work with 2d civil stuff...

Inventor works differently than autocad in that you assemble things piece by piece and then it basically "compiles" your project.

[EZ_4_FUN]

Yes, I've heard; Sounds just like Soildworks. You create parts then you can assemble them. You can even go as far as animating the assembly, conduct stress tests and dynamic loading tests. As a Mechanical Engineer, I had to use the 3D software quite extensively.

[fowljesse]

It's great that you're doing this. It sucks that the sticky on it doesn't include pictures. Would you be able to sell pieces? My stock car just needs a couple parts, and I can't justify spending the $$ on replacing the ones that still work. This is TOTALLY worth it on a performance car! You guys will get to the point that it usually breaks loose, and it keeps turning. It's wierd to get used to.

[mx-3_4evr]

I'm in on this! about the one piece bushing, isn't that going to make it harder to install?

[wytbishop]

Thanks for all your offers of assistance. I'm quite good with Inventor and starting to learn ProEngineer. I work in CAD every day, so this is pretty simple in terms of drafting. The difficultly will come in the design.

I'm in on this! about the one piece bushing, isn't that going to make it harder to install?

I won't make any changes that do not improve the design. I think it will depend on how large the lip is and how hard the material is. It may require an experimental test fit.

It sucks that the sticky on it doesn't include pictures. Would you be able to sell pieces?

Once I have models I will post pictures. I will also post pictures of my test fits with the SuperPro bushings. The manufacturer has not set a minimum order size, so I will be able to order individual bushings no problem.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. What are your thoughts on my payment system idea?

[onlytrueromeo]

Personally I think payment plans are tough, and any "advanced" money is what has been the downfall of alot of the group buys and the likes on the forums. It's not that I don't trust the people on the forums, it's just that with seeing how things like the lambo doors went down, or people like Dan Myers, I'm a bit more slow to give out my money.

The good thing about payment plans (like they're doing for the CF hatch) is that it locks people in, so you don't have lots of people sitting on the fence, and no one willing to commit. Most people (myself included) really like to see some sort of prototype before investing in something. I don't know what kind of startup costs you're looking at, and I think that will really depend on what will affect things. It's not easy for everyone to do what Jesse did with the Slim Visors and front all the money himself.

[wytbishop]

That's why I suggest having the buyers send their payments to someone other than myself who everyone trusts. I was thinking of either Jeff Aycan himself or if he's too busy, Mark (Mooneggs). That way I know people are committed and you know I'm not going to steal your dough. I will pay the manufacturer myself and only receive payment from you all when the parts have been received.

There will be a prototype and I will illustrate the quality prior to offering them for sale.

[onlytrueromeo]

Sweet. Sounds good.

[marcdh]

good idea

[MazdaManiacMx3]

I think we should send out the money to Marshmallow or Dan myers they are trustworthy members

[RS_OBD'oh_2]

I really like the idea. I am sure that a "full kit" would really not benifit all that much. I would like to see motor mount inserts (like the 240's) instead of fillin it with the mud in a can. I'd like to see upgrades for bushings that we'd see and feel true benifit. Paying 300.00 (just a guess) for bushings that don't add anything is not something I am looking for. I do like the option of picking an choosing and the way your going to go about the payment options. Keep up the good work. We'll be watching.