why a ze

max kl · Post by **max kl** » October 10th, 2006, 2:51 am

im not tryin to piss any one off. but. i cant understand why go with a ze

lots more money
how much more hp what 30 40 hp
no state side parts support
boost ha. if you biuld it then boost
a high pef j-spec motor should dliver 100 hp per litre
again now goin for anger just the honest truth

Steve_SK · Post by **Steve_SK** » October 10th, 2006, 4:31 am

I say something if I can..

I have 1.8 V6 in my MX-3 and I am happy with it, it is perfect engine. I have a KL-DE engine in garage (well, it is not KL-ZE), it has 21.000 km on it and I am not going to swap it against K8. Reason - I don't need more power than I have now with K8. And another reason - I think K8 engine gives me much more fun than KL, I had KL in 626, it was powerful, but it ran somehow different..

K8 is great for me.

Post by **Custommx3** » October 10th, 2006, 9:36 am

max kl wrote:im not tryin to piss any one off. but. i cant understand why go with a ze

lots more money
how much more hp what 30 40 hp
no state side parts support
boost ha. if you biuld it then boost
a high pef j-spec motor should dliver 100 hp per litre
again now goin for anger just the honest truth

well, for the amount of money you will spend to get comparable power to a KLZE, you'll spend 2x as much as the motor swap costs.

and its 70 more HP not 30-40.

Trust me.. ride in a KLZE powered mx-3, and you'll want to do the swap.

solo_ryder · Post by **solo_ryder** » October 10th, 2006, 12:25 pm

By the time that you do a DE swap you could have had a ZE for abit more money that has lower km's and for the HP difference you get then the money difference is well worth it.

As custommx3 said, you may want to acctually experience the ride first hand before you judge because it is a totally different experience.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » October 10th, 2006, 12:54 pm

I have to disagree.. I am not saying the ZE isnt a good engine choice.. what I will say is that the KLDE is far easier to obtain for a LOT less money. Plus.. you have your choice of 3 different ECU's all USDM spec that are dirt cheap to find. A DE is a direct swap in (including ECU) for as little as $400. Minimum ZE swap including ECU will set you back around $1000 at least. The ZE is what? 30 hp more than the DE? The DE has better valve retainer clips too so no chance of overreving and dropping a valve. And on top of all this.. you pretty much need to run the Highest Octane gas you can find to get the best performance out of the ZE. On top of that.. the KL31 & KL36 ECU's arent even the best solution but usually cost $250 or more. I think (Not sure though) the KL68 ECU was the proper one for the ZE but wouldnt work with our cars because of the VAF / MAF issues. A standalone is really the best solution for the ZE to operate at peak efficiency.. but that can cost even more than the KL31 or KL36 ECU.

Bottom line.. if you want the highest possible WHP output without modding engine internals.. go ZE.

If you want something more cost effective.. go DE. A DE can be turned into a ZE with a few internal mods (Pistons, cams.. etc..) and a proper intake swap. This is what my research has led me to since I got my GS. These are just my personal opinions.. and I dont expect anyone to agree or disagree.

Tunes67

mxmaz · Post by **mxmaz** » October 10th, 2006, 1:34 pm

$600 for the extra 30hp is nothing. A ze swap is well worth it.

fieromx3 · Post by **fieromx3** » October 10th, 2006, 2:21 pm

i wont ever go ZE to me its definitly not worth the extra money plus the ZE id say isnt even 200hp go look on interprep the dynod what? 185hp? thats a fully rebuilt ZE to BTW.. and ive been a a kl-ze mx3 and to me it is defintly not worth the extra like 6-700 bux over the DE plus even the de ive had are pretty much as fast as ALL the ZE i raced except one car kept winning!! search around find a DE for like 200 bux slap in a MSnS and some goodies and kick the s--- out of the ZE i bet ya for like 500 bux i could take a DE and kill the ZE...
in the end id rather go DE than ZE its not worht the extra money plus id be dropping a valve in 2hrs if i had a ZE lol
i know im gunna be hated for saying all this but yea its an imho and i dont hate the ZE thats just my take of ZE vs. DE

max kl · Post by **max kl** » October 10th, 2006, 4:14 pm

wow nice posts this could be the next chevy vs ford debate.

all the stuff i find on the de say 165 - 170 hp
the ze is like britneys boobs 220 210 195 185
mabe its just the are so many versions but i dono

any ze owners race the 8th mile?
i would love to hear some ets times in the 8th .
i run 9.60 consistanly a few 9.5 n 9.4s and 8.90s with a 60 shot

i know i will not run a ze but i want a set of ze cams to play with
and ze heads n intake with a de bottom end and lot of boost sounds nice

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » October 10th, 2006, 4:33 pm

Holy triple posts batman!!!

LooseChangeRacing · October 10th, 2006, 5:06 pm

DE VS ZE hmmm

Well it depends on what you want to accomplish

Going for Turbo, yes the DE is the better engine for the low-budget turbo route. Why do I say this, becuase if you wanted to go all out and turbo the ZE you would want to pretty much replace all the internals with all upgraded, this of course would set you back a pretty penny, now after that the ze could handle 20 psi but think about this...if you bought a de and replaced all the internals you could now in fact have a ze at 20psi but for cheaper.

If you don't want to go Turbo and want ALL-MOTOR (if you know anything about cars you know that all-motor can be the top of the line fast fast cars) You would then decide to go ZE.

You saw the ZE that was fully built at 185hp, do you understand why it only has 185hp, the compression was lowered (in essence making it a DE with built parts)

If you were to take the ZE and RAISE the compression with upgraded parts and built the engine all motor you can easily reach 250+whp on a NON-turboed ZE, which for 90% of the crowd on here, 250whp would be too much to handle anyway....

fieromx3 · Post by **fieromx3** » October 10th, 2006, 5:17 pm

LooseChangeRacing wrote:You saw the ZE that was fully built at 185hp, do you understand why it only has 185hp, the compression was lowered (in essence making it a DE with built parts)

ok that was a DE block but still same as ZE and i looked and yes DE heads but are ported to ZE specs. but it has ZE PISTONS look at the tops there FLAT not dished! had rectangular ports in the heads and 31 cams had straight neck intake! its a ZE and yes dynoed 185 crank horse
its still pretty much a full ze

hgallegos915 · Post by **hgallegos915** » October 10th, 2006, 5:49 pm

Ive driven in k8, kf, klde.. the ze is the one that has the most pull , giving you around high 14s with the propper ecu (probinator ecu and de vaf) The ze CAN be boosted.. around 7 -8 psi. The ze CAN be modified internally. I work hard for my money and i spend it like crazy of stupid things. I AM the second fastest x3 in my city

Other one is also a ze btw. There are no bpts, basically people ehre are poor/lazy to do the engine work so in my market im set. Im going megasquirt btw

then maybe SS. if it blows? rebuild for boost

You need to ride on a ze to feel the difference.

yes de will give you more gains boosted.

Its basically personal choice and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Steeb · Post by **Steeb** » October 10th, 2006, 6:33 pm

1000 ze days are long gone. one can get a ze for 750 shipped with ecu and warranty nowadays.

i use 87 octane since i got my first ze. i used it on my second ze and the current one in my car. toyota has engines that run higher compression than 10.1:1 on 87 with no problems.

do a search under my name or aiden with "klze" "octane" to look up the octane conversions that we have posted to save everyone money but nobody listens

yes de will give you more gains boosted.

BS lower compression gives you a larger margin of tuning error but the fact is that higher compression will give you more hp/lb given both engines are running exact same f/i parts. not to mention the higher compression engine will have a much better off and on boost response.

a couple years ago when everyone used to say the same thing about de is better for boost and ze is not good for boost....i was trying to convince everyone that the high compression + f/i + properly tuned > low compression + f/i + properly tuned.

do a search on my board name with "compression" & "boost" in the search terms and you'll see how everyone also disagree with me for so many years what is finally become common knowledge in this community

low compression + boost = more lag and worse throttle response

high compression ftw in any n/a or f/i engine. tuning is key as i have always said

hgallegos915 · Post by **hgallegos915** » October 10th, 2006, 8:27 pm

Well i still love the ze WAY more better than the de and im egting boosted sonmeday, it SUCKS.. on probetalk someone posted a site that has them for 500 dollars!! I heard prices are going down

i payed 1000 shipped for mine. every penny was WORTH IT!

2RotorsNaDream · Post by **2RotorsNaDream** » October 10th, 2006, 9:08 pm

I've had a KLDE MX-3 and I have a KLZE MX-3 now. They don't feel that much different driving until you race against a car with the other one. I raced my stock ZE MX-3 against my friends DE MX-3 with CAI, headers, and ZE cams and still beat him pretty easily. So yes there is a decent difference in TOP END power. Low end is very similar though. And a turbo ZE is very very fast and easily done up to 10psi unlike many other people here say. I know a couple of very depenable turbo ZEs running 8-10psi and they are incredible on the highway and have no internals changed.

MX-3.com

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