Cutting Springs...

Vanished · Post by **Vanished** » January 18th, 2006, 7:35 pm

http://www.306motorclub.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=10946

Ok just out of curiosity here...read post #22 and down. Is this true? I've heard only bad things about cutting springs, and it only makes sence thats you shouldn't do it...these guys seem to think other wise.

Grants · Post by **Grants** » January 18th, 2006, 7:52 pm

Looks like you gotta be a member to access it....

Josh · Post by **Josh** » January 19th, 2006, 2:01 am

depends on the car, and the style of the spring. if you have a progressive spring where when the full load of the car is on it and the rings are touching eachother, there is no problem cutting a link. such as i did on my eibachs after the AWD swap, because the new rear hubs lifted the car 4 frickin inches. but the way i did it it will never effect anything other than the ride hight.

PATDIESEL · Post by **PATDIESEL** » January 19th, 2006, 2:06 pm

Eibachs are not progrssie rate springs. Progressive rate springs get thinner (have a decreasing diameter coil diameter) as they get closer to the upper perch.
Cutting is not a good idea. Period.
The best solution if you need to lower your car is to do it right with coil-overs or lowering springs.

Josh, I know that coil-vers would not have helped if you really needed 4" of drop, but if you cut enough to get 4" lower then you cut more than one ring. My GCs will lower the rear quite a bit, maybe you should try some. The fronts will only go down about 1.5" on GCs, but ther rear will go much more.

Post by **Custommx3** » January 19th, 2006, 2:44 pm

Cutting springs are dangerous, especially if not done correctly. If it pops out of the perch, very bad things can happen.

Vanished · Post by **Vanished** » January 19th, 2006, 4:28 pm

heres what the guy said

Guy: I cut my springs

Me: I'm sure you've heard this before but cutting springs is just dumb. It acculy makes it worse of a ride. Sure you have "low center of gravity" but your springs are just weaker. Get new springs. NOW.

Guy: Cut springs = shorter springs. Shorter springs = less travel. Less travel = Higher spring rate (rate increases as spring becomes more compressed). DBM can vouch for me here that cutting springs on an AE86 is a cheap and effective way to stiffen up the suspension.

guy #2: WTF are you talking about? Cutting springs INCREASES spring rate. There is nothing wrong with cutting springs if you do it correctly. Aslong as you dont heat them up to s---.

Guy: Cut springs = shorter springs. Shorter springs = less travel. Less travel = Higher spring rate (rate increases as spring becomes more compressed). DBM can vouch for me here that cutting springs on an AE86 is a cheap and effective way to stiffen up the suspension.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » January 19th, 2006, 10:03 pm

PATDIESEL wrote:Eibachs are not progrssie rate springs. Progressive rate springs get thinner (have a decreasing diameter coil diameter) as they get closer to the upper perch.
Cutting is not a good idea. Period.
The best solution if you need to lower your car is to do it right with coil-overs or lowering springs.

Josh, I know that coil-vers would not have helped if you really needed 4" of drop, but if you cut enough to get 4" lower then you cut more than one ring. My GCs will lower the rear quite a bit, maybe you should try some. The fronts will only go down about 1.5" on GCs, but ther rear will go much more.

see thats what i though, i didnt think they were progressive rate but i was told when i bought them that the Eibach's were.

i only cut one link off, it lowered it about 1.5" or so. but the rear gap is a 3 finger width still where the front is just under 2 finger gap. its better than the fist that i could fit between the tire and the fender. but the way the spring is designed IF CUT PROPERLY it wont harm a thing other than lowerign it. now keep in mind it was only the back ones, cutting the front would be a bad idea. and on the back the links are always collapsed at the top on eachother (like 6 links) and cutting the top link wont hurt it one bit. i would recomend it to any one who doesent know how to change their oil. i agree that heating the springs is a bad bad thing.

i actually just purched some GC's i just havent put tem in yet. i didnt have the money for them when i did the swap, and i wont waist my time with E-Bay springs.

tatsu · Post by **tatsu** » January 21st, 2006, 5:27 pm

PATDIESEL wrote:Eibachs are not progrssie rate springs.

Actually, that's incorrect for both the Eibach Pro-Kit and Sportline springs - according to Eibach's website and every set of Eibach springs I have ever seen, they are both progressive designs. You may be thinking of the Eibach ERS or ERD springs, which are the race springs used in coilovers - ERS springs are linear rate, and the individual components of the ERD spring sets are linear, but when combined (ERD = double springs, I.E. two different rates) they make a progressive setup.

Progressive springs simply have a different spring rate throughout their travel - this change in rate is achieved either through winding the spring with the coils closer together throughout a portion of their length, or as Pat said above, using tapered wire, though the first method is more common.

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » January 21st, 2006, 6:46 pm

you are incorrect in what you think a progressive spring is.

The diameter of the metal isn't what changes, the rate at which the coils are wound is.

The diameter stays the same on all springs I've seen. If you look at ur stock springs (or ur aftermarket ones) you'll notice that the bottom-most coils are spread apart WAY more than the top coils.

Thats what progressive is & means....that the coils aren't a constant "wounded" rate...they spread apart towards the bottom & gradually are compressed together towards the top. The bottom coils = stiffer & the tops = softer.

The stock mx3 springs are progressive as are every single aftermarket spring i've seen for it (sprint, eibach, susp techniques, b+g, intrax & h&r's)

tatsu · Post by **tatsu** » January 22nd, 2006, 1:54 pm

tatsu wrote:Progressive springs simply have a different spring rate throughout their travel - this change in rate is achieved either through winding the spring with the coils closer together throughout a portion of their length, or as Pat said above, using tapered wire, though the first method is more common.

That's exactly what I said!

DavidOS · Post by **DavidOS** » January 22nd, 2006, 3:59 pm

cutting springs is the worst thing ever,
one pothole, bump to big etc..etc.. you spring pops out
and at high speeds (highway) or anywhere for that matter,
the spring can in worst case shred the s--- out of your tire
meaning your dead at high speed.

the ride quality is absolute s---, and spring rates are not higher at all,
they are set the same way the coil is set from factory. Meaning if you
cut one ring down your starting spring rate is at that point. If you dont
do it right the spring will not sit right, and put abnormal pressures
elsewhere on the metal (bad idea). Furthermore as far as increaseing
a springrate, cutting does nothing at all. If your desperate for
cheap s--- buy dropzones.

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » January 22nd, 2006, 7:17 pm

i also forgot to add.

For those saying "cutting springs is unsafe" you are also incorrect.

While it is ghetto & cheapass to cut your springs, there are ways to SAFELY cut them to lower the car.

First of all, heating springs to lower the car = stupid. Not only will you get inconsistent results on each corner, you will also screw up the molecular structure of the metal in the spring making them fragile to breakage.

Cutting them via a cutting wheel or sawzaw is the ONLY way to do it if you actually want to do this.

The reason cutting springs has received a bad rep is b/c people who do it are generally cheapass idiots who don't know wtf they are doing. Cutting more than ONE coil off is stupid. You can't cut 1/2, 1 1/2 etc, you must cut either 1, 2, 3, etc coils to have the spring properly seat in the perch of the strut.

People who are saying "they are unsafe b/c they can pop out of the spring perch if you hit a bump" also don't realize what they are saying.

Ever compare a stock spring to a lowering spring? My eibachs are a good 1" lower than my stockers, yet when you put them into the strut they still are compressed a bit making them "safe from popping out" if i hit a harsh bump.

I also looked at my stock spring & visualized if it had a single coil cut off of it. Guess what! Its about the SAME height as the eibach now! It'll still compress into the perches & be safe from popping out of the perch.

The only unsafe thing I can see from cutting a single coil off a stock spring is the fact the angle at which the coil seats into the perch will be changed. It probably doesn't matter b/c once the spring is compressed & installed into the strut, the angles wil lchange for the better anyways but its just a concern I have. If you look at hte angle of the lowermost coil uncut & then of the coil above it, you'll see what i'm talking about.

And for the record, I helped my cheap bastard friend cut his supra springs (1 coil) it was a suprising result of stiffer, lower (1" or so) and nicer, tighter handling combined with the factory adjustables the turbo supras came with. I've also ridden in a VW jetta with 2 coil-cut springs and it rode fine & the kid had been driving it for 3 years while i was in college like that. The shocks were blown by teh time we graduated but it was so low it wasn't "unsafe" since there was no travel anyways

.

MazdaKiller · Post by **MazdaKiller** » February 6th, 2006, 11:31 pm

yeah so conclustion depending on the springs you may be able to get away with cuting springs. If you got a honda wich all the springs are the same you may cut , unlike the mazda the spings are wider in middle then at the ends.