Successfull Emissions Test :-) Update

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » October 29th, 2005, 10:46 am

Thought I'd start a new thread on this one.
Well, not so good news. I failed the emissions test. After I did a compression test, I changed plugs, cleaned disty rotor, cleaned disty contacts, added 4 litres naptha to nearly full tank of gas, did a good 20 minute run on highway just before test.

Test type........Limit.....Reading.....Result

Idle
HC(ppm)........300.......295...........Pass
CO%..............1.50......0.76.........Pass

2500rpm
HC(ppm)........300.......169..........Pass
CO%..............1.50.....2.06..........Fail

The test was done without using the rollors because thay said the car was lowered too much and could not be anchored down safely. Also had paperwork from local Mazda stating ZE specs and thereby was tested under "Hotrod" parameters.
As you can see HC is OK at 2500rpm but is very close to failing on idle.
I have a back-up TB which should be a little better than my current one and will be putting that on today, just on spec. Because the ISC on the TB was generating a high idle, it has been disconnected for the last few months - could that be a possible contributing source to consider or am I just reaching here? Can anyone make heads or tails out of this and possibly make some recommendations.

bushidosword · Post by **bushidosword** » October 29th, 2005, 10:57 am

What are your plugs gapped at?

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » October 30th, 2005, 1:04 am

bushidosword wrote:What are your plugs gapped at?

New NGK Iridiums 1.1mm

Wow, I was hoping for a little better response than this considering that there are numerous peeps that have had similar problems.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » October 30th, 2005, 6:11 pm

for a little help on this one.

PATDIESEL · Post by **PATDIESEL** » October 30th, 2005, 10:28 pm

couple a questions and suggestions
1. what are the pass fail specs for a K8 where you live?
2. I'd take it to a place where they will use the rollers so that you get an accurate test.
3. fix that idle, it is most likely throwing off the air fuel ratio with it rigged like that.
4. I know some guys who tried the naptha trick and found it is no trick at all. Don't do that, a good fuel system cleaner should do the trick at getting a good spray and a good burn.
5. gap seems fine, (it is stock off the top of my head right?)
6. how old are your O2 sensors? might need to be replaced.

Generally if you fail CO your car is not burning all the gas in the combustion chamber or the Cat is not doing its job properly. What have you done to the car since last years test. Sounds like the ZE swap for one, which doesn't help us much since I'm sure there are several new parts to accompany the new motor. So if you did do a ZE swap what is NOT new?

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » October 31st, 2005, 1:42 am

PATDIESEL wrote:couple a questions and suggestions
1. what are the pass fail specs for a K8 where you live?
2. I'd take it to a place where they will use the rollers so that you get an accurate test.
3. fix that idle, it is most likely throwing off the air fuel ratio with it rigged like that.
4. I know some guys who tried the naptha trick and found it is no trick at all. Don't do that, a good fuel system cleaner should do the trick at getting a good spray and a good burn.
5. gap seems fine, (it is stock off the top of my head right?)
6. how old are your O2 sensors? might need to be replaced.

Generally if you fail CO your car is not burning all the gas in the combustion chamber or the Cat is not doing its job properly. What have you done to the car since last years test. Sounds like the ZE swap for one, which doesn't help us much since I'm sure there are several new parts to accompany the new motor. So if you did do a ZE swap what is NOT new?

1. Pass/Fail specs are the ones listed as "Limit"

Test type........Limit.....Reading.....Result

Idle
HC(ppm)........300.......295...........Pass
CO%..............1.50......0.76.........Pass

2500rpm
HC(ppm)........300.......169..........Pass
CO%..............1.50.....2.06..........Fail

2. As I mentioned this place does have the rollers but did not want to assume responsibility for damage because it was lowered and found it near impossible to find hook points to strap car down without doing damage to the bodywork.

3. Have had the best idle possible at around 700rpm but would occasionally stick at around 900-1000. TB has a lot of air getting by the butterfly because of a poor seal thereby necessitating to adjust the Idle Air Screw in to almost completely closed which I know is not good. The ISC was also disconnected because when plugged in it would bump the idle up to over 1000rpm. Resistance value for the ISC is supposed to be between 10.2 and 12.3 and mine was at 12.6 this summer when checked. I've always been puking out black crap out of the exhaust ever since the ZE swap was done and thought that it can't be good and thought I may be blowing oil out or something. Always would get deposits on the tail section of the car after a good drive. Just did a compression check last week before installing new plugs and here's what I had;

1- 197
2- 201
3- 196
4- 207
5- 205
6- 201

Would these readings negate the possibility of oil being blown out? I never see any smoke from the a-- end either under load, normal driving or engine starts. Since my TB is pretty much farked would I possibly be blowing out unspent fuel? Old plugs that were pulled showed an excellent colour (whiteish to light tan) and very little deposits of any kind. I just got another used KL68 TB from "Dewthis" and although the gap between the venturi and butterfly was a little less then mine and the ISC resistance reading was just within tolerances, I decided to put it on yesterday. It took me over 4 hours to fine tune the throttle linkages/stop points/TPS resistances/voltages. After the set-up I didn't reset the ECU which is something that I've always done in the past after removing the jumper wire when doing a TPS adjust. I didn't do it based on one of the write-ups I saw on Probetalk whereas in other write-ups it usually says to wipe the ECU memory. The idle is spot on with the ISC installed and I actually have a return of some of the old KL08 attributes return like higher idle kick-down when excessive electrical loads are encountered like the rad fan or for other accessories which I believe is a good thing now. Since installing the new TB, I've done 2 short drives and noticed less of a deposit on the rear section. The air idle screw is now at 1.5 turns out as opposed to .2 of a turn out compared to other TB, so this must be good right? What are the normal turns-out positions for others with ZE's running KL68 TB's?
Along with installing the second TB, I installed a new (K&N oiled) cone re-usable air filter on the CAI which runs into the fender well. As well as previously mentioned, before the test I cleaned the disty rotor and disty contacts which are both new items this past spring. Would having the Air Idle Screw set to only .2 turns out on the old TB account for a rich mixture that doesn't get ignited? Back then, if turned out any further the idle would step up to about 900-1000, as if there's some sort of threshold that's crossed. The new TB is at a point now (1.5 turns out with a perfect idle of 700) that if turned out any further it will also hit that higher idle threshold that takes it up to nearly 900+ rpm. Should I do that?

4. OK, I'll knix on the naptha. Just used a good fuel system/TB/valve cleaner about a month ago. Should I try it again?

5. Spark plug gap is set on the high side of spec on Iridiums newly installed the day befor test. Engine is a ZE with KL31 1A1/101 heads, cams unknown (KL31/KL01). Millennia IM and ZE plug wires. No EGR installed. Brand new Magna Flow Cat and Pre-Silencer with a 2 year old Magna Flow Muffler and 2.5" SS tubing.

6. Not sure on the age of the O2's. They're probably my originals (not sure if ZE installer transferred them over from my old K8 or used ones from previous ZE owner) and I've always used high test gas, clean air filters (K&N) for the last 10years as well as I always cleaned the disty rotor and contacts 2 to 3 times a year and changed the plugs twice a year. As for the old O2's history, I've always had an excellent burn/ colour to the plugs when using the K8 for the last 10 years. I may have been leaning toward new O2's but was leaning toward getting a wideband set-up for future plans. The problem with that is that there's only one O2 that's part of the Innovative WB set-up. What does one do for the other O2? I know Rick Johnson has done the WB set-up but not sure how that figures into the ZE ECU system since they (Inovative) have both WB and NB (Narrow Band) outputs from them. I'd prefer to go that route if it is an O2 problem rather than spending the money on O2's that will be replaced this Winter/Spring pre SC install. Is there anything (engine info/data) that you also need to know?
Last e-test was done 2 years ago with the K8 in it. This was the first e-test with the ZE installed.

Slade · Post by **Slade** » October 31st, 2005, 7:47 am

Hey John., you shuld try going to Action Towing in Trenton for your test. I think you might have a better chance of passing there as I did with a crappy cat..THe dealer that sold me the car took it to a different test facility and failed horribly, I didnt do anything to it and it passed(barely) but it passed at Action. Good luck

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » October 31st, 2005, 7:55 am

Slade wrote:Hey John., you shuld try going to Action Towing in Trenton for your test. I think you might have a better chance of passing there as I did with a crappy cat..THe dealer that sold me the car took it to a different test facility and failed horribly, I didnt do anything to it and it passed(barely) but it passed at Action. Good luck

Oh great!!, That's where I went in the first place because no other place has suitable set-up for a lowered car.

ocshaman · Post by **ocshaman** » October 31st, 2005, 8:23 am

I heard a story of a mechanic using a spray bottle of water into the TB the after he failed emissions After sucking a bottle of water into the engine the car passed.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » October 31st, 2005, 8:43 am

Looking at your results, I was suspecting that not having the car on a workable load, but even then, your idle test is borderline close.

LOL, wtf, hydrolocking the engine? I don't think that's a good idea

Myself, when i did my e-test back in February, there was a post about putting coleman fuel in to pass e-test, so I actualyl tried it. Most people recommended putting a gallon (one of those large cans) in to a 1/4 tank, Mine was less than half of a tank (3/8's about) and i passed to problem, it dominated the test, way way better than my K8 test. I put in the fuel right when i arrived, I didn't even drive it around before hand like they recommended. Right after i drove (and took it easy) to the nearest gas station and put in some 94 Octane. I remember reading about some guy was having some issues after trying that, but he didn't top off his tank tank and kept runing with the high level of Coleman fuel

That also helps is that they tested it almost right away, it's suppose to help to have the engine upto temp. I know your an easy driver too John, drive her around and just giv'er for a few days, "clean out the carbon" from your old man style driving

. On the way to the test. assuming it's a good drive, if not, drive her around for like 20min, keeps the revs high, make the engine work for a while and try to get them to test it as soon as possible. FYI, the cat needs to be warmed upto temp to work properly. I don't know if it makes a difference, try getting her tested on a cold day, the denser air should help for a cleaner burn. I *think* I remember hearing about people brining their cars in on rainy days to help on e-test, but that my just be an urban myth.

Here are my test results:

ASM ~2525rpms (tested at 2209rpms)
Test / KLZE Reading / Jan '05 "Hot-Rod*" Limits
HC ppm / 12 / 68
CO % / 0.0 / 0.38
NO ppm / 5 / 526

Curb Idle (Tested at 1082rpms)
Test / KLZE Reading / Jan '05 "Hot-Rod*" Limits
HC ppm / 11 / 200
CO % / 0.01 / 1.0

FEELS LIKE -18°C
RELATIVE HUMIDITY 85%
DEWPOINT -12°C
PRESSURE 103.03 kPa

*I don't believe i was tested as a hotrod since my limits were lower than my K8 test 2 years prior.

BTW John, I'm extremely jealous of your compression test numbers.

ocshaman · Post by **ocshaman** » October 31st, 2005, 9:19 am

Nd4SpdSe wrote:LOL, wtf, hydrolocking the engine? I don't think that's a good idea

Good luck hydrolocking with a spray bottle. Ever heard of Water injection? he wanted ideas, I made suggestions that i have heard that works. Flame away.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » October 31st, 2005, 9:40 am

Never heard if it. I don't know...I've never heard of injecting water into an engine. Now, I don't know how much water is required to hydrolock an engine, but that's something I don't want to test.

Unless your talking about this:
http://www.msdpowersports.com/2004_watercraft_wics.html

Or this (but it's relation to turbo's)
http://www.turbocalculator.com/water-injection.html

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » October 31st, 2005, 10:22 am

Nd4SpdSe wrote: That also helps is that they tested it almost right away, it's suppose to help to have the engine upto temp. I know your an easy driver too John, drive her around and just giv'er for a few days, "clean out the carbon" from your old man style driving

Yeah. If you drive Ms Daisy all the time, you could stand an Italian tune-up before the test.

atlantamx3 · Post by **atlantamx3** » October 31st, 2005, 10:28 am

I would say you need to change those o2 sensors if they are the original ones.

Slade · Post by **Slade** » October 31st, 2005, 11:12 am

Sorry about your luck John, just thought I would throw my suggestion at ya. Hope to hear good news!