ATX for KLDE??

[Chiggles]

I have a 95 GS with an ATX, and had originally intended to swap the stock K8 for a KLZE down the road only to find out from the research on this board that it seems I can't keep the ATX I have if I want to put the ZE in because the sheer amount of power delivered from the ZE will destroy the K8 ATX as it can't handle that much power, and I can't swap in a ZE ATX either cuz it's too large to bolt onto our MX-3's.

I know many of you on the board would swap up for the KLZE and may have done so already, but a lot of you drive MTX's already, which makes the swap that much more convenient. I know plenty of you would suggest that I just swap my ATX for an MTX for performance reasons and reliability, but in my situation, I'd like to keep my MX-3 running with an ATX for a few reasons - the wife might borrow the car every now and then and she's nervous enough with city driving as it is (she comes from a smaller town of 21000 people) so getting her to learn stick when she's still not used to the traffic volume in the larger metro that we live in isn't a good idea. I'd like to get my MX-3 back in one piece, thank you. Secondly, I mess around with a lot of things on the go, so a free hand is nice to have to juggle things like breakfast, coffee, cell phone, etc. Besides, my car is still on the stock tranny and engine having only racked up 121000 Kms (~ 75000 miles), so the tranny is still in good condition and I've already done the preventative maintenance of having a tranny cooler installed as well as doing the ATX fluid change regularly so I'm taking really good care of it.

That said, even though there's various posts on this board that said a KLZE isn't compatible with a K8 ATX, I couldn't find anything definitive in my search to say whether or not a KLDE swap would work with my K8 ATX. I'm hoping that since there's a little less power in the DE than the ZE that the K8 ATX will still be able to handle the DE. Can anyone confirm whether or not this can be done? If not, how about if I swap in the DE ATX as well? Will that fit better instead?

[Aston Wards]

Been down this path myself, it can be made to work, but you have to ask yourself whether it is worth it? because of the crappy tranny you won't be wanting to use the new engine to it's full potential.

if you really want to do the swap, then don't bother with a KL ecu, use your K8 ecu and get a Airflow signal interrupter, I used a Link systems Interceptlink, but there are others out there...., basically they alter the signal to the ecu and they are tuned for your car

The problem with the KL (and KF) ecu's is that they have their own built in Auto tranny controllers, whereas the K8 uses a separate unit (behind the ashtray), this causes a confict and results in the tranny running in safe mode

Good luck whatever you decide, my advice is to stick with what you've got till it blows up....., hopefully not too soon!

[Chiggles]

...so the answer to the question "Can the K8 ATX handle the power from a KLDE engine?" is "Yes"?

You mentioned the crappy tranny. Would it be possible to swap the ATX meant for a KLDE to go into the MX-3?

[Aston Wards]

Yeah, well...., maybe?! I ran it on a KF (same power, less torque) and gave it heaps, it wasn't the engine that killed my tranny, towing a horsefloat did it!!!
There are some posts on the KL tranny, it appears that it doesn't fit...., although some say they have....., go figure?!
Seriously, if you want a fast automatic car, try something else, this isn't an ideal car...., you've been warned!

[Chiggles]

You ran "it" on a KF.... meaning your K8 ATX could handle the power from a KFZE engine? If that's the case, that's promising. Oh, and you also said something about same power but less torque. I assume you're comparing the KFZE against the KLZE??

I don't intend to tow anything with my car, much less a horsefloat. And although it may not be the ideal car, it wouldn't be a "project" then, would it? And from what I interpret given the collective answers on the board so far, it appears that at the very least I can safely assume that the KLZE ATX will NOT fit on the MX-3....

That said, can anyone else give me more input and confirm as to whether or not I can support either a KLDE or KFZE engine with an auto tranny (this being the K8 ATX or fitting the DE ATX or KFZE ATX into the MX-3)???

[Aston Wards]

Sorry!
I had an auto KFZE, same power but less torque than a KLDE.
also i believe the KF and KL trannys are the same

[Chiggles]

Say that again: your Presso ran a KFZE w/ a matching KF ATX?? Hmm... interesting.

KF and KL trannys shouldn't be the same. If that holds true, that conflicts with what was stated here: http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=44342 So that suggests KLZE ATX wouldn't fit, and if KLZE trannys are the same as KFZE trannys, then how does your Presso fit one? Or are you saying KFZE trannys are KLDE are the same? Basically, this particular issue to clear up is determine which of these are right:

KLZE ATX = KLDE ATX?
KFZE ATX = KLDE ATX?

[Aston Wards]

NOOOOOOOOOO!

i ran my KFZE through a K8 transmission

as for whether the KL & KF trannys are the same, i haven't checked the part no's, i'm just making the assumption based on that both engines came in the same models.
But even if you were to get a KL/KF tranny to fit, they are still poorly designed, and die regularly in std KL/KF cars
Sorry to be so negative, but i've been through this and wouldn't recommend it

[Chiggles]

I don't mind the negativity. In fact, I appreciate your consideration and feedback. I'm just making myself aware of all possible directions I can take. BTW, I'm not familiar with the specs of a KFZE compared to the KL engines. What size, hp, torque, etc. do you run?

[Aston Wards]

can't help with the specs sorry, they're floating around here somewhere!
good onya for doing some research, unfortunately i was a guineapig!

i'm sure if the KL/KF trannies could fit, then there would've been no point making the crappier K8 tranny?!

[Bling Bling]

Hey Chiggles...I'm also interested in th "DE" swap as I don't want to swap the tranny right now...but I might. I don't know this guys handle but Rick in Calgary PM'd me on this topic. He mentioned that the "DE" would bolt up with no problems. Any extra parts would be the ECU from the donor car and the VAF sensor. For 165 HP the stock K8 tranny would work fine. If you want to get crazy...say a turbo upgrade or NOS...then swap out the tranny for a stick with the appropriate parts from a 93+ probe GT say. I will probably find the stuff over the winter months and if time and money are present, I might do the whole conversion and get a rebuild. Than I'm ready for a possible turbo upgrade.

[Chiggles]

Hey Chiggles...I'm also interested in th "DE" swap as I don't want to swap the tranny right now...but I might. I don't know this guys handle but Rick in Calgary PM'd me on this topic. He mentioned that the "DE" would bolt up with no problems. Any extra parts would be the ECU from the donor car and the VAF sensor. For 165 HP the stock K8 tranny would work fine. If you want to get crazy...say a turbo upgrade or NOS...then swap out the tranny for a stick with the appropriate parts from a 93+ probe GT say. I will probably find the stuff over the winter months and if time and money are present, I might do the whole conversion and get a rebuild. Than I'm ready for a possible turbo upgrade.

Haha! Sounds like you're going to be ready to attempt this engine swap a lot sooner than I will, so good luck with that and keep me posted on how things work out for you. And although I don't intend to turbo it or anything like that, I do understand a tranny swap is highly recommended to go along with this operation in the end. I think I know who you're referring to regarding that Rick guy you mentioned. Check your PMs....