Dead MX-3

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 25th, 2004, 8:42 pm

Hello today my K8 engine probably died.
When I was on my way to home the engine has stoped and didn't start again. I've tried few times. When I'm trying to start engine I hear starter trying to run the engine but without effect. During this operation all equipment is shutting down it self for a while?. Engine is dead. What can I check ? What to do ? There was no any sound before this engine malfunction.

Reg,
Marioo.

SimonPK · Post by **SimonPK** » June 26th, 2004, 12:27 am

distributor

TsiMiata · Post by **TsiMiata** » June 26th, 2004, 12:38 am

yup your distributor died.

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 26th, 2004, 2:10 am

ECU will post a code for it ?

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 26th, 2004, 2:56 am

I've checked ECU against the codes, no error codes at all. I've checked fuses , fuel injec relay, immobiliser they all are ok. To test the distributor i should check if there is spark between cable and ground ?

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 26th, 2004, 3:28 am

Originally posted by Mariusz:
I've checked ECU against the codes, no error codes at all. I've checked fuses , fuel injec relay, immobiliser they all are ok. To test the distributor i should check if there is spark between cable and ground ?

That's right - wear a clean insulated glove, or use a clean insulated tool to hold the wire close to the engine block

There is no diagnostic code for the distributor, which includes the coil and the "igniter" (transistor amplifier), which is the usual point of failure, I think.

If you fit your KJ, you won't ever have that problem, it has a separate coil for each plug!

[ June 26, 2004, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: IanL ]

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 26th, 2004, 4:31 am

Hi IanL, there is no spark at all.
I've removed black cover from the distributor.
There is something like "finger" and the black thing,probably the electronics. How can I diagnose which of the distributor elements is bad ? I can check the resistance of this finger, but where to look for this transistor and how to check the signals connected to the distributor, do you have any diagrams ?

PS. There is a fuel smell when I'm tring to start so probably fuel pomp is ok.

Reg,
Mariusz.

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 26th, 2004, 5:35 am

Mario,

The finger is the rotor arm. It is just a conductor, so it should be close to zero ohms. It should be clean, with no trace of pitting or burning. The cap should be very clean, with no trace of tracks or burning, especially on the inside. Remember the HT voltage is like lightning, trying to find a path to ground.

The coil can be checked as follows:
Unplug the 3 pin connector. Look into the connector on the disty. With the 2 "bars" on the top, the pins are A, B, and C from Right to Left. Coil Primary resistance should be 0.58 to 0.86 ohm, measured between A and C. Coil Secondary resistance should be 11.5 to 18.5 kOhm, measured between C and the HT terminal (which is next to the connector, but facing the other way, i.e. into the cap).

I don't have test data for the igniter. It's an NPN transistor with the emitter grounded, the collector connected to pin A of the 3 pin plug, and the base connected to pin F of the 6 pin plug on the disty, which goes to the ECU (Pin 1G) via a Green/White cable.

The coil and the igniter are not available as spare parts from Mazda - you have to buy a new distributor

Or maybe get one from a scrapyard?

WARNING: Above applies to '94 and earlier cars. If anyone else uses this data on a '95 or later car (even if its OBDI), the 3 pin connector is wired differently and the coil is different(Primary between A and B 0.49 to 0.73 ohm, Secondary between A and HT 20 to 31 kOhm) (I am sure of this - I'm looking at the Mazda pre- and post-95 manuals.)

Caution: The changeover date is from Haynes - my Mazda Parts list for the UK suggests it is November 1993, so it may be earlier in Europe.

[ June 27, 2004, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: IanL ]

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 26th, 2004, 9:35 am

I've dismounted distributor into parts. <img src="http://www.szas.uk.to/22.jpg" alt=" - " />

Resistance values on this part with pipe on the top. Pinout 1 , 2 ,3 , PIPE

1-3 - 1kOhm
2-3 - 2Ohm
1-2 - 1kOhm

But I'm not able to locate this transistor, also what to check on the terminals from ECU ? There should be some kind of ignition signal.

When I removed cover from the distributor i tried to start engine, the finger is moving around the distributor.

[ June 26, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Mariusz ]

TsiMiata · Post by **TsiMiata** » June 26th, 2004, 10:25 am

afaik the individual parts on the distributor are not repaceable. You'll need to replace the whole unit.

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 26th, 2004, 10:35 am

And where the ignition module is located ? also the coil ? Can someone sent me electrical schema of the ignition system with coil and the distributor ? I think that the distributor is ok but the ignition module is bad.

[ June 26, 2004, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Mariusz ]

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 26th, 2004, 12:45 pm

Originally posted by Mariusz:
And where the ignition module is located ? also the coil ? Can someone sent me electrical schema of the ignition system with coil and the distributor ? I think that the distributor is ok but the ignition module is bad.

EDITED: The coil and the igniter are built one of those three parts in your picture. My guess is the coil is in the piece on the left, and the igniter the one on the right.

The coil primary is high resistance; you haven't given the secondary resistance (measure between C and the "pipe"). But it hardly matters - the primary is defective, so the unit is junk.

The ECU signal is on the wire I told you about to the base of the igniter.

You will either have to get the parts from a used disty, or buy a whole new one.

[ June 27, 2004, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: IanL ]

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 27th, 2004, 6:25 am

I found this NPN, it was in the second part.

<img src="http://www.szas.uk.to/p1.JPG" alt=" - " />

and the transistor it self

<img src="http://www.szas.uk.to/p2.JPG" alt=" - " />

I've checked the transistor with the resistance meter. There is no short between C-E B-E B-C and there is no reverse current when I'm switching +,- meter polarity ,so in my opinion NPN is OK.

Also resistance HT - C on the coil 15kOhm.

When I'm trying to start engine on the F pin , 6 pin distributor connector from the ECU side 0,25 V is occuring, this is for NPN driving.

Reg,
Marioo

[ June 27, 2004, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: Mariusz ]

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 27th, 2004, 6:45 am

Since you know the Primary of the coil is defective, whether the transistor is good or bad seems to me to be academic. With a new distributor you get both.

Or are you going to get several from a junkyard and hope to assemble one good one?

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 27th, 2004, 7:12 am

Lates coil update, I've done tests once again:

C-A , 1kOhm
C-B , 1Ohm
B-A , 1kOhm
C-HT, 15kOhm

obtaing used spare parts for mazda in Poland is not so simple. There is lot of toyota's hyundai's etc on japanese junkyards but mazda is realy hard to find. So I'm in deep sh..

IanL:
I don't have test data for the igniter. It's an NPN transistor with the emitter grounded, the collector connected to pin A of the 3 pin plug, and the base connected to pin F of the 6 pin plug on the disty, which goes to the ECU (Pin 1G) via a Green/White cable.

The only pin to which transistor is connected (3 Pin connector) is B, on the 6 pin connector E , F
So the wiring of the transistor is (6 Pin) F to Base , (3Pin) B to Collector, (6 Pin) E to Emitter? It is very important because i will try to switch only the transistor.

[ June 27, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Mariusz ]

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