War talk

[johnnyb]

A few weeks ago I read in a newspaper about Bush and Iraq. The interesting thing i saw was how France was being defended for refusing to go to war. To me the paper made a good point. Now for those who dont know, Iraq's population is 95% muslim and 65% of them are Shi`a. Under Bush's plan he would like to take control of the northern region of Iraq as fast as possible as this is where most of the oil patches are. But, The Shi`a control this region. They are against Saddam Hussein and his regime. Now to some people this may look like a good thing. Yet, the Shi`a are a fundamentalist group that could be under definition by US standards a terrorist group. Now if the US went to war alone and did take control of Iraq and had a new government put in place the Shi`a would want control of their land, which of course is the northern region. The American government would face this choice. Hand over control of the oil to a fundamentalist group, or keep contol of it and risk being attacked by them. Now I know SOME ignorant Americans would say "Well we would just kick their asses too." But these people would also be the ignorant ones to not know that the Shi`a are an army of 15 million and have the advantage of knowing the territory better. This may be the start of WW3 and France may be protecting everyone from it.<p>As I stated before, I read this and found it very interesting. I have watched CNN and seen one side of the story, I thought of this as another side. I have also noticed that of the american stations I can receive, they all seem to be telling the same story there are no different perspectives.<p>I didn't post this to offend anyone, so please don't start posting bashing me. Its just something that makes you go "hmm"<p>[ March 28, 2003: Message edited by: johnnyb ]</p>

[Ryencool]

when that happens , or if it happens we will deal with it then. YOu dont say oh, if I buy this car, it could break down 6 years from now . That would negate ever making a decision. Our president has made a decision, and a right one in my opinion. The man we are going after has no respect for human rights and has no right to rule any body of people..

[azmtbkr81]

I can see where you are coming from but I think some of your arguments are off. Just being fundamentalist doesn't make them automatically terrorists. Amish are fundamentalists.
As a minority Shiites have been the victims of abuse by Sunni Muslims for hundreds of years. They more than anybody want a democratic government in Iraq, and have already agreed to participate in one if Saddam is overthrown. <p>The US has yet to prove that the war is over oil. If it were, we would have taken control of the Iraqi oil fields ten years ago. <p>For France it is obviously about oil, they along with Germany and Russia have cut deals with Saddam with cheap oil and will lose that deal if the US invades. France's position would be much stronger if they had no dealings with Saddam. This is why I have no respect for France, they can't play the pacifict card because they have a terrible record as far as war goes in their African colonies. They are constantly sending troops over there to protect their truly imperialist interests but that never gets any attention because people in the US for better or for worse consider that their business.

[kuruption1983]

I didnt feel like reading the rest of the comments,,, but as a persian, i know there would be another problem. The other thing is 8 million out of 65 million population of Iran are kurds who have the same background as the ones in Iraq, and if iraqi kurds want a separate gov't, iranian kurd's wouldnt sit down and watch, they would want to join the rest of da fellows. And even worse problem is turkey has kurds too, and they would want the same thing,,, And what Bush is doing is making a soup thats too salty that noone can eat,,, I am from the non-muslim part of Iran, a zoroastrian, if you get bored it would be fun to do a search and find out about it.)

[polak_gino]

thanks keveh, its good to see the view of a person from that area, and has the knowledge of the middle east. most of us only know what we see on the news and wat bush wants to tell us. It is really one sided, this kind of opens up our views a lot

[VizualXTC]

If you guys would actually take time out to listen to what the PEOPLE say....more than half of the US does NOT want to go to war with Iraq. You guys think that America hides behind our army, and we think we can take on anything. Well, that may be because YOU have an opinion and are unwilling to look at both sides of the story.

[EBUCKS]

So show us differently, Ryan. Like Rob (Polak) said, it's good to hear from someone (Kaveh) from the area being attacked, cuz as Johnny B has said, he's seen one side of the story coming from CNN, based in the US (obviously). Ryen, from NY also thinks that your president is doing the right thing too. I wonder why he doesn't raise his flag in his avater like you do Ryan. And AZmt, the world won't settle until, the US take their foot out of everybody a$$.
I'm starting to see how divided the US are becoming. Very interesting! <p>one

[polak_gino]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by EBUCKS:
the world won't settle until, the US take their foot out of everybody a$$.
I'm starting to see how divided the US are becoming. Very interesting! <hr></blockquote>

[polak_gino]

so tru. ya i know that U.S wants to help everyone "and make the world a better place" but sometimes it just seems like they make some situations even worse, cuz somtimes they just try to do a lil to much<p>just my opinion.<p>and i know that not everyone in the U.S wants to go to war

[992mmx3]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by EBUCKS:
So show us differently, Ryan. Like Rob (Polak) said, it's good to hear from someone (Kaveh) from the area being attacked, cuz as Johnny B has said, he's seen one side of the story coming from CNN, based in the US (obviously). Ryen, from NY also thinks that your president is doing the right thing too. I wonder why he doesn't raise his flag in his avater like you do Ryan. And AZmt, the world won't settle until, the US take their foot out of everybody a$$.
I'm starting to see how divided the US are becoming. Very interesting! <p>one<hr></blockquote><p>I think you fail to realize that we are holding up to an agreement that the U.N. signed, not just the U.S. This is not a U.S. vs Iraq thing, this is holding up to U.N. policy. This is something that France, Germany, and Canada all signed, a policy that states that Saddam must disarm, he has not, what China, Germany, Canada, and France want is more evidence. I find this hard to swallow though seeming that yesterday (i believe yesterday anyways) a shipment carrying 200 tons of rocket fuel and other dangerous chemicals that can be used in weapons of mass destruction was intercepted. It was brokered bye FRANCE, given to syria, then trucked into Iraq. I think France has some sort of agreement with Saddam thats bigger than we all think and is trying to cover themselves, just speculation right now, but very intersting non-the less anyways. Another thing, Turkey is on our side, they allowed us to store troops in there country. The U.S. isn't divided, its just not in agreement on some issues, its actually a majority that is with the president. Why is it that people can't see the simple fact that Saddam has got to go.

[992mmx3]

Another thing, I heard on the news today that President Bush is going to Europe to discuss diplomatic plans, looks like Iraq might be starting to cooperate with U.N. policy here (finally). Also, if people think this war is over oil, they are tragically wrong. If we wanted more oil, we would lift sanctions off of Iraq and get it, no war involved, also, a war would cost our nation more, not to mention a ton of oil to get everyone there, in the long run than just lifting the sanctions off of Iraq on there oil.

[EBUCKS]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Another thing, I heard on the news today that President Bush is going to Europe to discuss diplomatic plans, looks like Iraq might be starting to cooperate with U.N. policy here (finally). Also, if people think this war is over oil, they are tragically wrong. If we wanted more oil, we would lift sanctions off of Iraq and get it, no war involved, also, a war would cost our nation more, not to mention a ton of oil to get everyone there, in the long run than just lifting the sanctions off of Iraq on there oil. <hr></blockquote><p>Again you're talking about propaganda that you're fed! Try talking to people from that area who have communication with people over in these other parts of the world. Kaveh has something to say. All you have to tell me is what I can hear on the news already. Maybe you should get your facts straight, on what's really going on.
I'll repeat myself. The US used to be a melting pot of different nationalists. It is not so anymore, and hasn't been for many years as paranoia has set in big time. You are now a very divided group.
You don't need to impress me with what CNN said, as that is all common knowledge. Word on the street is much better. Find a friend from the middle east, China, Germany, Turkey, France, even Canada to talk to. It'll open your eyes. And you may develop some respect for people other than yourselves. <p>one

[azmtbkr81]

Nobody, not one person in the US WANTS to go to war, nobody wants to see life lost except for maybe Saddam's. If Saddam were to give up and leave the country do you think we would still go to war? Last time I heard, though, 70% of all US citizens want to see Saddam gone and are WILLING to go to war if we have to. Its ridiculous how all these people say "I'm for peace, I'm for peace!" If your idea of peace is letting a maniacal dictator thrive and brew up up weapons of mass destruction to use against the US and his own people than you are on crack. <p>E-bucks you seem to think that the whole world is against the US getting rid of Saddam-you are sadly mistaken. More countries support us than not, and the ones that really count are Kuwait-which has tasted Saddam's aggression firsthand and Israel which has been bombed by Iraq. Furthermore pretty much all Eastern European countries that were once part of the Soviet Bloc support us. They know what its like to live under an evil and oppressive regime and can sympathize with the Iraqi people. Earlier this week Lech Wallessa, Polish freedom fighter and former president urged the world to support the US, and emphasised that getting rid of Saddam is a noble cause. <p>If you guys are so convinced that the US has these crazy alterior motives lets see some evidence, make some arguments that are grounded in fact instead of just conjecture, name calling and Bush bashing.<p>Also, if you were king of the United States, how would you solve this problem? I am curious to hear because so many of you are so quick to offer criticizm but never offer any solution.

[VizualXTC]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by EBUCKS:
So show us differently, Ryan. Like Rob (Polak) said, it's good to hear from someone (Kaveh) from the area being attacked, cuz as Johnny B has said, he's seen one side of the story coming from CNN, based in the US (obviously). Ryen, from NY also thinks that your president is doing the right thing too. I wonder why he doesn't raise his flag in his avater like you do Ryan. And AZmt, the world won't settle until, the US take their foot out of everybody a$$.
I'm starting to see how divided the US are becoming. Very interesting! <p>one<hr></blockquote><p>A few points. I have had a US flag as my avitar since the day I registered on this board. It has nothing to do with the current situation. And the US is anything but divided. No more than any other country. What happens when the Canadian prime minister decides to back the US in our war against Iraq? Are you going to change your mind too? See, there are a LOT of people who do NOT want war. They think it will do nothing, but guess what. They stand behind the person they elected. Your mom tells you to do something you don't want to do, what do you do. You do it. Not because you WANT to, but because you have respect for her. We have tons of respect for Bush. See you talk to us about giving you information that you do not hear in the media. Let's hear your non-media information. Do you really believe you know everything that's going on over there, or even here in the US? Do you think that everything that is released in the US is released to Canada? Do you think your media has all the information? Do you think since Kaveh has family there, that he is the ultimate source on the economy over there? I live in the US and there is a lot I don't know about the US. Hell, I could be living there and still feel the same way. Location means nothing. There are people in US that knows a lot more about other countries than the US. You're standing on speculation and assumptions. There was a show on TV here the other day. It was a US radio host that rented the TV station to publicly reveal the information that he has gathered. He said, if we saw it, that it would totally change the whole way we thought about this war. If you knew half of the things that Saddam does over there you would change your mind also. He will take prisoners and execute them by tying their arms and legs to 4 different cars. Sounds like fun don't it? He will cut a woman's ****oris off. (my appologies if I offend) Wow, what a hell of a guy you're trying to protect. You can sit there with your head up your *** and speculate and assume anything you want. Your opinions will NOT waiver my patriotism or my feelings about this war. I know Canadians that want the war. I know Mexicans, Austrailians, French, English, Spanish, and Germans. I know people all across the globe that support the US on this subject. Since some of these people agree with the US, and some don't, does that mean their nations are divided? You sit there and act like you know everything about the economy of the US. Maybe YOU should get YOUR facts strait before you start posting information you know nothing about. You speak of respect? You're not disrespecting individuals with posts like that, you're disrespecting an entire country. Ignorance like that is a dangerous thing.

[Guest]

I think what people are trying to say is they dont want a war for the wrong reasons, if all the counries involved are going to agree on the same thing and the same outcome then go ahead. But **** the US government really has to slow down and consider all the out comes. <p>No one wants Saddam in power but if this is going to cause a larger conflict in the Muslim world then why bother? Saddam isnt the only power hungry, militant in that area and when hes gone are we just going to see another Afganistan? Is the US really going to help rebuild Irag and leave it to its own resources?<p>All I want to see is all countries having an equal part in this, not US dominating so that way there cant be any other motives.