stevesei wrote:The thread you mention was so full of truth, half-truth, and just plain BS! This thread which, by the way my post does address, since manifold choice is just one issue, seems destined to go the same way.
Naturally, manifold choice is a factor in building an engine, If you read my post, you'll find that my discussion of street driveability and general overall good manners in engines, is highly pertinent.
And NO, I don't regularly rev to 7500 RPM, it's an exercize much better served by upshifting at 6000 to 6500 on those rare occassions that require maximum sustained acceleration. I just mentioned that it WOULD rev well. You apparently missed the OPINION or SPECULATION that freer exhaust is very good for top end, with the curve neck manifold and mild cams.
BTW, look up "ad hominem" in your dictionary. It has been my impression that MX-3.com was a place for interchange of ideas and experience. I see nothing in my post that requires any sort of personal attack or digression. Considering the accurate information presented, maybe it would be best to do a reality check on the definition of quality!
PS: See square manifold on oval port heads, K8 TB will fit, but why?, so does the Milly TB, pulls hard at low RPM, top end vs low/mid-range torque, general driveability.
Cheers!
Oh that thread was a whole wack of messed up. I didn't have much time to participate, but part of me didn't want to, it was just a mess, and never sorted itself out. I think it was on the verge of getting there (to a point) but it was locked.
I'm not saying everything everthing you said is wrong, but the majority of the information, and the way and what you presented screams "DE vs ZE" thread. Yes, there's more to the IM's than the IM's themselves, but that's a question and discussion of what people want to have for a setup for their motor. The points on heads, cams, exhaust, igniton, tuning and obversation are irrelevant for a discussion specifically about IM's, that is a discussion for a motor setup and your experience with your motor setup, it doesn't point to any concrete information or conclusion about the intake manifold. Of course you argue that it's relevant, of course it is, the motor needs an IM, it's part of the whole system to make it actually work, you just can't not use an IM (excluding ITB's, but that's different). If you would of had talked about your setup and had swapped intake manifolds from one for the other and talked about your experiences with that, than sure, but, to break it down:
- Heads: Mention is the oval vs square ports is IM related, and it's a question that does indeed get asked from time to time, but the compression of the pistons are irrevent to a discussion about IMs
- Manifold: No concrete information that isn't already known, and all your doing is making assumptions
- Cams: Irrelevant to IM's, That's solely a DE vs ZE cams post
- Exhaust : Completely irrelevant and that's your experience with your setup, and doesn't compare to anything
- Ignition : Again irrelvant to the IM discussion and the HEI and coil is far from anything new. Good info about using the milly sensor, but again, this isn't IM talk
- Tuning : Other than the small reference to VRIS, in which that reference is only an assumption, more irrelevant IM discussion information
- Observations : This is an observation of *your setup* and not about an intake manifold. Also, to discussion, there's no way it should pull to the fuel cutoff if your running KL01 cams where the peak torque starts to drop off after 6500rpms (where exactly i don't quite remember), it should start to stop pulling after that point. The reason to shift after 6500 is to bell curve the torque curve and to arrive at a set and optimal rpm point when you shift intot he next year. Shifting beyond 7000 and to have a pull beyond 7000 requires custom mild performance cams (anything non-OEM) to get what you describe.
- Next paragraph is exactly a DE vs ZE argument, and you even mention your resoning, and what parts make up for the 30hp difference. Not only is this irrelevant to the IM discussion, but this is directly an attempt to restart the DE vs ZE argument.
- A slight and relevant IM mention, but mostly about how your setup feels and compared to your K8, and doesn't discuss any drivablity comparions between any intake manifold. Daily driveability is never an issue with any DE or ZE until you get into hardcore setups like agressive 218 cams, puck clutches and ITB's.
Your trying to defend your post that it's not a DE vs ZE post, while all submitted information is mostly exactly that while trying to hide it with some vague and mild intake manifold references. Don't throw and hide behind that the "It has been my impression that MX-3.com was a place for interchange of ideas and experience" to pretend to not start an argument, that's very condensening of you. I did not see or say there were any personal attacks in your post, and nor were any of mine
stevesei wrote:You apparently missed the OPINION or SPECULATION that freer exhaust is very good for top end, with the curve neck manifold and mild cams.
You made no correlation between those points in your post. Of course a free flowing exhaust is good for top end, it always is, we always knew this. Of course KL31 cams make power higher in the RPM curve over KL01, we always knew this too. Making any improvement to gain power up high will always yield a drop in power down low, this is nothing new to the table. Throwing "intake manifold" in your sentences doesn't make it automatically relevant when your subject is far from it.
