Can a supercharged KLZE handle a small shot of nitrus?

Sean Mandell · Post by **Sean Mandell** » October 6th, 2002, 11:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ProtegeSTS: i dont think the tuning possibilities are going to even come close if a big budget is allowed. You cant argue with a 1.8 rod ratio of the big k series engines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I see you did your homework but there might be other versions of this engine that will only come out overseas. you know it is most likely. but anyways it will be awile till we could buy them. So in your opinion what is the best set up for $10,000 US that is?

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 6th, 2002, 5:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by nvrsrndr: I see you did your homework but there might be other versions of this engine that will only come out overseas. you know it is most likely. but anyways it will be awile till we could buy them. So in your opinion what is the best set up for $10,000 US that is?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> To do what? you doing all the work yourself. It looks as if you HAVENT done your homework at all.

dj4monie · Post by **dj4monie** » October 8th, 2002, 5:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ProtegeSTS: Vortechs are crap....im sorry, but I just dont get it... why would you intentionally use something that only gets high end power, yet isnt as efficient as a Turbo?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Who gave you that idea? They can be VERY efficent. Only slightly less than a turbo and more than most roots-type superchargers. The Honda kits don't make big numbers down low, because the engine doesn't make big torque numbers either. With a small V5 Vortech you can plenty of thrust at 3000rpm, esp on the KL V6 engine. Trust me, if you have driven one or riden in one you would understand what I'm talking about. There's no lack of power downlow in a properly tuned compact with forced induction.

dj4monie · Post by **dj4monie** » October 8th, 2002, 5:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by nvrsrndr: I was planning on supercharging the klze for sure but was thinking that if 10 seconds would be out of the question with nitrus? Of corse I will be using stand Alone and upgraded fuel system but I was more worried about the internals. can stock internals handle 7psi with say a 75 shot of juice?

[ October 03, 2002: Message edited by: Custommx3 ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That depends on your compression ratio, timing and fuel quality. All things being equal you shouldn't have any problem running 7psi of boost and a 50hp shot of nitrous oxide on top of it. If you can keep detonation under control, your engine should live a long life. Remember fuel octane is important. But since the cooling properties of nitrous are very good, you might not have to step up in octane or reduce timing very much. You'll just have to do it. Im my experience, it can be done with stock internals and live alot longer than most people think.

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 8th, 2002, 7:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Anthony Thomas: Who gave you that idea? They can be VERY efficent. Only slightly less than a turbo and more than most roots-type superchargers. The Honda kits don't make big numbers down low, because the engine doesn't make big torque numbers either. With a small V5 Vortech you can plenty of thrust at 3000rpm, esp on the KL V6 engine. Trust me, if you have driven one or riden in one you would understand what I'm talking about. There's no lack of power downlow in a properly tuned compact with forced induction.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The size of a Centrifugal supercharger has ZERO to do with how soon it starts to give meaningful amounts of power increase. Boost is a factor of the blade speed to the 4th, and blade speed is directly linked to engine RPM on a belt driven supercharger.My ideas about efficiency are this... sure they are as abiaticly efficient as a turbo, but now add in the fact that the thing is draining on the engine through parastitic loss. You have as much power, and you DONT get low and midrange power. They are popular with the V8 crowd because low and midrange power is what a v8 has plenty of. They need top end, which is exactly what a Vortech style kit will give you. If you have some dyno data to prove otherwise, im all ears.

pelado · Post by **pelado** » October 9th, 2002, 12:54 am

For a dyno chart: <A HREF="http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/stills/dyno.jpg" TARGET=_blank>www.mazdamaniac.com/images/stills/dyno.jpg</A> 200 HP by 3500 rpm with the peak at 5500, not too shabby for a POS Vortech supercharger on a KLDE with stock internals....Yes, blade speed is directly linked to engine rpm on a supercharger but if you put a small sprocket on the supercharger and a bigger one on the other end of the drive belt, then I guess the boost could get up a little faster than you might think.

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: pelado ]

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 9th, 2002, 11:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by pelado: For a dyno chart: <A HREF="http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/stills/dyno.jpg" TARGET=_blank>www.mazdamaniac.com/images/stills/dyno.jpg</A> 200 HP by 3500 rpm with the peak at 5500, not too shabby for a POS Vortech supercharger on a KLDE with stock internals....Yes, blade speed is directly linked to engine rpm on a supercharger but if you put a small sprocket on the supercharger and a bigger one on the other end of the drive belt, then I guess the boost could get up a little faster than you might think.

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: pelado ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> but you still need to base your size sprocket off what the max boost will be at redline. This limits midrange.My opinion... you have 3 choices:NA: for those who like being slow and running high rpm

(your welcome David)Roots blower: full boost everywhere, and a flat torque curveTurbo: most power, but at cost for turbo lag For more indepth about this subject...please read 2 threads off protegeclub where we have discussed this before. <A HREF="http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showth ... percharger" TARGET=_blank>http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showth ... charger</A> <A HREF="http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showth ... percharger" TARGET=_blank>http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showth ... charger</A> I've made my point before...dont feel like typng it all again.

pelado · Post by **pelado** » October 9th, 2002, 10:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ProtegeSTS: I've made my point before...dont feel like typng it all again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It made me quite weary as well.

I guess you didn't want to comment on the dyno run, eh? Quite different from the one you posted in the linked thread.[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: pelado ]

pelado · Post by **pelado** » October 11th, 2002, 9:40 am

Jeff Abrams made his Vortech work quite well. Visit his site for details.

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 11th, 2002, 3:44 pm

define "very well" ? peak numbers and times dont really mean much, because nobody has done a good roots blower setup, or a turbo. Of course a Centrifically supercharged KL is gonna be fast....all im saying is that it could be faster...and or have a bigger, wider powercurve.

pelado · Post by **pelado** » October 11th, 2002, 6:26 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ProtegeSTS: define "very well" ? peak numbers and times dont really mean much, because nobody has done a good roots blower setup, or a turbo. Of course a Centrifically supercharged KL is gonna be fast....all im saying is that it could be faster...and or have a bigger, wider powercurve.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Go look at his site, I'm not gonna repeat all that stuff here. It makes me weary.

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 11th, 2002, 6:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by pelado: Go look at his site, I'm not gonna repeat all that stuff here. It makes me weary.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <A HREF="http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/stills/dyno.jpg" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/stills/dyno.jpg</A> There's his dyno... and its exactly what i dont like. He's gaining 100 hp from 3000 rpm to 5000 rpm. Thats too much, too fast, IMHO. A roots blower would be better, again in MY opinion as far as driveability....its just less peaky, at the cost of some top-end efficiency.It's just not my idea of a good compromise. I realize it works well for him, but i see better options.Agreed to disagree on this.[ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: ProtegeSTS ]

pelado · Post by **pelado** » October 12th, 2002, 5:17 am

Yeah, I posted that further up this thread.

mazdamaniac · Post by **mazdamaniac** » October 20th, 2002, 2:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ProtegeSTS: <A HREF="http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/stills/dyno.jpg" TARGET=_blank>Jeff's Dyno Plot</A> There's his dyno... and its exactly what i dont like. He's gaining 100 hp from 3000 rpm to 5000 rpm. Thats too much, too fast, IMHO. A roots blower would be better, again in MY opinion as far as driveability....its just less peaky, at the cost of some top-end efficiency. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not sure what you mean by "too much, too fast". I believe that you ALLWAYS want ALL of your power IMMEDIATELY. Then, you use it judiciously by modulating the gas pedal. I don't EVER want a power curve to drive my vehicle for me.

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 20th, 2002, 3:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by mazdamaniac: I'm not sure what you mean by "too much, too fast". I believe that you ALLWAYS want ALL of your power IMMEDIATELY. Then, you use it judiciously by modulating the gas pedal. I don't EVER want a power curve to drive my vehicle for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Jeff, say you had a properly sized roots blower on your car. What do you think the powercurve would look like? I'd wager it would get more power through a signifigant potion of the powerband.

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Can a supercharged KLZE handle a small shot of nitrus?

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