umm, Nascars and Indycars are hardly the forefront of automotive technology!
I wasnt making a statement regarding cutting edge technology. I was making a statement based on ABS being used in a performance venue. Considering that your average Nascar Racecar costs well over $100,000 US to build & maintain.. if they wanted ABS brakes.. you can rest assured that they would have them.
ABS can have some very weird side effects when pushed to the extreme, such as under racing conditions. The "rock hard pedal" syndrome can occur leaving the driver with no control whatsoever. I have heard of this happening on quite a few occasions, particularly when the car has an airborne wheel. My direct experience of this is from involvement with production car racing and the ABS was subsequntly disabled for safety purposes.
I'm not knocking ABS at all - just thought I'd throw this in.
“You’ll find, that the only thing you can do easily is be wrong, and that’s hardly worth the effort.”
Adding ABS CAN be easy if you have a donor car with every single part you need. The main problem is trying to find all the parts but transplanting them isnt very difficult. As long as mazda did as every other carmaker in the world does and include all the options connections in their wiring harness then it should be as simple as plug and play. You may have some difficulty running the brake lines but if you're determined then you'll get it done.
I really dont see how you guys could think this conversion could be hard. Car companies make 1 wiring harness to go in all their models regardless of features to make it easier at assembly. So no wiring harness replacement would be needed. The main work would be the brake lines and the actual sensor installs. You all also need to realize he isnt asking if ABS is plausible on his race car but on his daily driver. None of the racing comparisons has an even remote similarity to this situation. So please dont mistake anything and try and compare his car to a race car
As long as mazda did as every other carmaker in the world does and include all the options connections in their wiring harness then it should be as simple as plug and play.
As far as I know Mazda didn't have the ABS in 93 so the loom might be different. I know mine for example has no wiring for the ABS at all. Would have been a bit hard to include the connections for a feature that didn't exist....
None of the racing comparisons has an even remote similarity to this situation. So please dont mistake anything and try and compare his car to a race car
Sorry for digressing, it was just a general discussion on ABS as whether the overall benefits would be worth the time, money and effort to install. My reading of the posts regarding race cars seemed to be a simple observation that ABS is not a necessity, even under the extreme conditions race cars endure and therefore a valid observation to take into consideration.
“You’ll find, that the only thing you can do easily is be wrong, and that’s hardly worth the effort.”
None of the racing comparisons has an even remote similarity to this situation. So please dont mistake anything and try and compare his car to a race car
I am not comparing his car to a race car by any means.. I am simply pointing out that in "Performance" applications.. ABS brakes are NOT preferred. I used Race Cars for comparison on this simply because its pretty much impossible to refute that Race Cars are indeed Performance vehicles. Also I am not in any way saying he shouldnt do this mod to his car.. heck if its what he wants.. then more power to him. Heck he might even pave the way and write a FAQ on how to do this so that in the future others that may want to do this mod will have a walkthrough at hand and as a result have fewer issues. And if you want to argue that people dont compare their MX-3's to race cars.. heh.. then why do so many people insist on putting wings & oversized spoilers on the backs of their cars? Why do people try to get 300 HP out of their engines? Why bother with cross drilled rotors & high temp brake pads?
Please dont take this as a flame or be offended by what I am saying here... that is not my intent. My entire point of this "Performance" topic is simply to indicate that ABS brakes are NOT always desireable. Does this mean he shouldnt do the swap? Hell no. If he wants the additional safety that ABS brakes provide for a daily commuter car and he is willing to put the time and resources into doing the mod (assuming he does it correctly and not half a$$ed, which would be more dangerous than not putting them in at all) then I say GO FOR IT. But thats his call.. heck.. depending on his insurance company and the price break they give him for having ABS.. the mod might even pay for itself in a few years. But from the performance or racing aspect of the mod.. its not viable or even desirable to have ABS brakes.
Grants wrote:
As far as I know Mazda didn't have the ABS in 93 so the loom might be different. I know mine for example has no wiring for the ABS at all. Would have been a bit hard to include the connections for a feature that didn't exist....
I own a 93 and mine came stock with ABS so I am positive it came as an option with the car
Tunes67 wrote:
I am not comparing his car to a race car by any means.. I am simply pointing out that in "Performance" applications.. ABS brakes are NOT preferred.
You were the one that brought up auto X. He in no way hinted that he was going to take his car into racing situations.
Tunes67 wrote: And if you want to argue that people dont compare their MX-3's to race cars.. heh.. then why do so many people insist on putting wings & oversized spoilers on the backs of their cars? Why do people try to get 300 HP out of their engines? Why bother with cross drilled rotors & high temp brake pads?
I'm not arguing that I'm just saying he was asking about installation on his car this whole thread got jacked by people talking about how in racing its bad. I'm just saying this is a daily driver not a race car so dont make those silly comparisons.
Besides if anyone has ever driven on a highway in the rain and suddenly everything stops will know the pros of ABS. Without it you'd probably hit the car infront of you. There are cons but for something you're driving on the street to and from your destinations its a great feature to have sometimes
*Chuckles* I am not trying to say there is anything negative about having ABS.. The original poster lumped ABS brakes in with such racing safety equipment as Roll bars and Racing harnesses.. so when reading that it put me in a performance frame of mind. And if you read my posts.. I have never said it wasnt a good thing to do for a commuter car. But if he is going to compare the safety of ABS brakes to that of other racing equipment.. well thats why I posted on the topic of ABS brakes in performance applications.. in anycase.. its not worth going on and on about. Cheers
ABS is a safety feature and should be regarded as an extra safeguard, not a necessity. It is also a relatively new development and cars survived for a long time without it (still do - not all cars made today have ABS). Although it may make driving safer and hence more enjoyable, nothing will replace experience and skill as the first line of defence to avoid accidents.
Comments placing total reliance on ABS such as:
Without it you'd probably hit the car infront of you.
and
And I tell you that ABS has saved my a-- a few times.
are quite worrying. The fact some drivers feel they need to rely on ABS to avoid collisions is frankly quite frightening.
And yes I know this isn't what this thread is about but these points have come up and should be considered by all road users.
“You’ll find, that the only thing you can do easily is be wrong, and that’s hardly worth the effort.”
From '94 Canadian sales brochure "Driver and passenger Supplemental Restraint System (SRS) and Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) requires alloy wheel on RS and requires Power Group on GS. ABS not available on GS with AT". This was an option on both the RS and GS models in '94 - option cost - $1,900.00 CDN. Safe to assume that it was an option in '93 and not available as an option in Canada in '92. FWIW
Last edited by jschrauwen on March 13th, 2005, 5:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
you see grant if you drove on the highways around me you'd know why I said that. There is a totally different frame of mind in driving here then over where you live so I wouldnt expect you to understand. You're also blowing out of proportion making it look like were saying its a necessity, I was just trying to point out the positive points of abs on this persons car because everyone else was comparing it to a damn race car.
lets say you're driving ~60 mph. The way the highways are designed in some spots here are some of the worst. You can go around a bend and traffic comes to a complete stop with no warning at all, anyone thats driven on the DVP around 3PM will know what I'm talking about. The only thing you can do is hit the car infront of you or go off the edge of the highway and either: drop 15 feet and fall into oncoming traffice, or: hit a wall. So now you see why I said that. I in no way said relying entirely on your abs is what you should do but in these severe conditions it might just be the only thing thats saves you from causing serious damage to your car and others and possibly serious harm to yourself or others. Nobody trying to stop is going to pump their brakes because lets face it nobody can pump that fast where it will stop them in the distance a car equipped with abs will. No matter what anyone says, ABS is a safety feature and todays cars are safer for having it. The studies and reports dont lie
If you're slamming your brakes hard enough to lock them up, then you're probably going to bump the car infront of you anyway. Don't drive fast is the answer.
And I AX'd my 93 non-ABS mx3 gs last weekend. Now, granted, you see around 35mph tops and by no means 60+mph, but there are some very short braking zones and I didn't lock up once.
But really folks, if you want it get it, then get it. No one is going to cut your balls if you don't.
