MX-3 vs MERCURY COUGAR

NorCalCoug · Post by **NorCalCoug** » June 2nd, 2003, 11:53 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Besides, if you want to compare engines, the K-series engines had Porsche engineers on the design team and Japanese ingenuity for the VRIS manifold design, as opposed to a couple of rednecks who build V8's designing the Duratec. Plus, with their sleeve thickness and rod ratio a K8 with proper oil changes and fuel treatment is bulletproof. <hr></blockquote>Ding ding ding! You lose. The Duratec motor was designed in part by Porsche, uses a Cosworth process on casting the block, and was designed by Ford Europe where there are no rednecks.

In addition, 40 horsepower more than makes up for the weight difference of 500lbs, but the bigger concern is the torque; at 165lb-ft of torque, that definitely more than makes up for the 500lbs of weight difference. People with stock to nearly stock Cougar V6 manuals run anywhere between 14.9-15.7 on average, depending on driver skill and minor mods.As far as engine swaps, there are a few available. Turbo kits? Got those two. Turbo'd Cougars run 300hp+ at the fly, and I know of and have driven one N/A Cougar running race cams on a 3.0L motor (instead of 2.5) at around 265hp+ to the wheels (over 300 at the fly) running low 13's on crappy tires and with a taller final drive for the freeway speed.

Hy300 · Post by **Hy300** » June 2nd, 2003, 4:06 pm

Thank God, I was hoping someone with a Cougar would respond. I knew Ford wasn't alone on the Duratec but I figured a good rant was needed. At least now we can get some useful knowledge in here. Some people, when provoked, will respond with a slew of information that is accurate and useful, just to prove their point.So lets get some gear ratios over here next. What is the gearing on the typical V6 standard Cougar? BTW, can someone tell me when peak HP and Torque numbers are on a Cougar? Last guy apparantly gave me the numbers but never said when they are.

Post by **Custommx3** » June 2nd, 2003, 4:13 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Ding ding ding! You lose. The Duratec motor was designed in part by Porsche, uses a Cosworth process on casting the block, and was designed by Ford Europe where there are no rednecks. <hr></blockquote>
There are plenty of rednecks in Europe....Oh and BTW. You flame here, and I'll ban you and delete your posts. Id like to see some dynos of this 265+ hp and some track slips and a mod list of these 14.9's.
We pull 13's on a 2.5L btw N/A.

UoMDeacon · Post by **UoMDeacon** » June 2nd, 2003, 5:52 pm

I thought the cougar owners post was a good post. No flaming that I see. I like that the mods on this board are nice and mature, if you are following the cougar board, some of their mods (only 1 actually) is pretty...immature.

Post by **Custommx3** » June 2nd, 2003, 5:55 pm

His posts are fine, just forewarning because theres alot of trash talking on that board, and we dont want that here.

Hy300 · Post by **Hy300** » June 2nd, 2003, 7:52 pm

U da man Barry, I like the way this board is run, clean and informative

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » June 2nd, 2003, 8:03 pm

Why dont we just settle this with an official drag, everyone call pull numbers out of there arses.What in the end it comes down to is price/performance ratio. Anyone can beat anything with money invested, in either car or upgrades. If we need to spend an extra ~$10k-$15k for an extra second in the quauter mile, who has the better car? And that about handling, features, confort, upgradability, customisability and other stuff that makes a car. Are we just gonna start a flamewar over a minute difference on only a single aspect?

Post by **Custommx3** » June 2nd, 2003, 8:56 pm

Indeed

johnnyb · Post by **johnnyb** » June 2nd, 2003, 9:01 pm

who cares which car is faster stock. Who races their car stock anyway? I'm sure if you had enough money to spend you could make one of those jeep things kids drive that would blow by both the cougar and the mx3 its all about how much money you're going to spend to make your car fast. as for 265hp at the wheels I'd like to see that on a 3.0 svt out of a taurus considering the 5.0 puts out 390 at the flywheel. If i'm calculating correctly thats ~330 at the wheels. When you look at any facts the SVT contour has 200hp they claim (which means at the flywheel) and thats exactly like the taurus a 2.6L not a 3.0. The most powerful 3.0 that came in the taurus is a duratec with 200hp. Nowhere is there a 300 hp SVT taurus unless it has been heavily modded

Post by **Custommx3** » June 2nd, 2003, 9:07 pm

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/44366/article.html
<blockquote>quote:<hr> SVT 2.5-liter Duratec V6, which now makes 200 horsepower at 6600 rpm (up from 195 at 6625) and 169 foot-pounds of torque at 5500 rpm (an increase from 165 at 5625). <hr></blockquote>

NorCalCoug · Post by **NorCalCoug** » June 3rd, 2003, 3:29 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Custommx3:

There are plenty of rednecks in Europe....Oh and BTW. You flame here, and I'll ban you and delete your posts. Id like to see some dynos of this 265+ hp and some track slips and a mod list of these 14.9's.
We pull 13's on a 2.5L btw N/A.<hr></blockquote>Thanks for the warning, but I don't flame. I only provide information to people who have the wrong idea.

Link to the post where CougarDemon ran a 14.9. Since the post is archived the pic of his timeslip doesn't show up anymore (old post) but obviously from everyone's response, it was a legit slip that was scanned. His mods (at the time) were a simple underdrive pulley, an intake, and a 100k ohm resistor spliced in with the intake air temperature sensor to advance spark timing. With those simple bolt-on mods not even topping 350 bucks, he was running 14.9 N/A.Link to dyno plot of turbocharged Cougar putting down 265fwhp.As you can see, they added ice to the intercooler mixture, due to the fact that they were dyno-testing the car in a hot shop (90+ degrees) at Street Flight's shop in Phoeniz, Arizona, where it tends to get a bit warm.

NorCalCoug · Post by **NorCalCoug** » June 3rd, 2003, 3:36 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Hy300:
Thank God, I was hoping someone with a Cougar would respond. I knew Ford wasn't alone on the Duratec but I figured a good rant was needed. At least now we can get some useful knowledge in here. Some people, when provoked, will respond with a slew of information that is accurate and useful, just to prove their point.So lets get some gear ratios over here next. What is the gearing on the typical V6 standard Cougar? BTW, can someone tell me when peak HP and Torque numbers are on a Cougar? Last guy apparantly gave me the numbers but never said when they are.<hr></blockquote>
The only gear ratio info I have is this, but it is for the European version of the Cougar which has a taller final-drive to accomodate higher speeds, hence lowering the acceleration of the vehicle. As a side note, Jimmy Jenning's 13 second Cougar runs the taller final drive to give him a higher top speed, which would otherwise be rev-limited out to about 147mph. Racing a Mustang GT on the freeway, he blew past 155, and broke is idle air control valve (The engine light code came back as 'IACV Overspeed'

)COUGAR DURATEC 24V
1st 0.854
2nd 1.114
3rd 1.483
4th 2.136
5th 3.417
Rev 3.462
Fin 3.82Stock numbers are 170hp@6250rpm/165lb-ft@4250rpm at the crank, not sure exactly what at the flywheel.

NorCalCoug · Post by **NorCalCoug** » June 3rd, 2003, 3:56 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by johnnyb:
who cares which car is faster stock. Who races their car stock anyway? I'm sure if you had enough money to spend you could make one of those jeep things kids drive that would blow by both the cougar and the mx3 its all about how much money you're going to spend to make your car fast. as for 265hp at the wheels I'd like to see that on a 3.0 svt out of a taurus considering the 5.0 puts out 390 at the flywheel. If i'm calculating correctly thats ~330 at the wheels. When you look at any facts the SVT contour has 200hp they claim (which means at the flywheel) and thats exactly like the taurus a 2.6L not a 3.0. The most powerful 3.0 that came in the taurus is a duratec with 200hp. Nowhere is there a 300 hp SVT taurus unless it has been heavily modded<hr></blockquote>A 3.0L block used from a Taurus runs you about 600-1200 bucks. The heads from an 2.5L SVT Contour run you about 500-1000 bucks. Modifications get it to fit in the Cougar are minimal; the only thing you have to do is chip the car to get the fuel/spark timing correct, and modify the rev limiter to accomodate your new powerband from the heads of the SVT contour which have a different set of cams in them. Just using the SVT Contour's heads and the 3.0L block won't net you more than 200hp at the wheels, or about 230 crank HP. Why 30hp higher than the Taurus block alone? 1) The cams change the powerband.
2) The part of the combustion chamber in the heads is smaller in diameter from the 2.5L SVT than the 3.0L taurus heads. The compression is bumped up almost a full point from this.So other than time, total investment to go from a 170hp car to a 230hp car and have way more potentional for later mods (supercharger from Vortech, turbocharger, etc) is about 3 grand. I wouldn't mind spending that to make the car faster.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Nd4SpdSe:
Why dont we just settle this with an official drag, everyone call pull numbers out of there arses.
What in the end it comes down to is price/performance ratio. Anyone can beat anything with money invested, in either car or upgrades. If we need to spend an extra ~$10k-$15k for an extra second in the quauter mile, who has the better car? And that about handling, features, confort, upgradability, customisability and other stuff that makes a car. Are we just gonna start a flamewar over a minute difference on only a single aspect?
<hr></blockquote>As far as handling, the Contour, Mystique and Cougar are all basically the same on the base platform. They're all based off of the CDW27 platform. The Contour (also formerly the Mondeo in Europe) was rated as having superb suspension. Minor tweaks like sport springs, konis, bigger rear swaybar and strut bars (total investment around 1000 bucks) will give you some damn good handling. The wheelbase of the Cougar is 104 inches, which helps alot with the handling.Features are great from a usability perspective. Stock features are simply 15" wheels, CD-Player, nice sound system. Some extra packages add sunroof, spoiler, 16" wheels, 4-wheel disc brakes, ABS, traction control, autotragic transmission (Oops, I meant automatic

Currently there are two Cougars (at least) running in the SCCA Pro Touring Car class, and formerly there was an SVT Contour. This has helped breed race parts for the cars. Also, Manny Cruz drives a twin-turbo 3.0L V6 Duratec RWD conversion for some kind of pro drag (NHRA?) that ran a 7 flat once.I'm not trying to start a flamewar; I never once said in these posts that the Cougar was a better car, I'm only providing more info on the Cougar to you guys.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the MX-3's look, or the interior, but everyone has a different opinion. That's why I'm driving a Cougar, and y'all are driving MX-3's. That's why some people drive Volvos and others drive BMWs.

[ June 03, 2003: Message edited by: NorCalCoug ]

NorCalCoug · Post by **NorCalCoug** » June 3rd, 2003, 3:58 pm

Did I mention I'm long winded?

NorCalCoug · Post by **NorCalCoug** » June 3rd, 2003, 4:19 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by sureshiit:
Got this from consumer report:"Reasonably peppy with the base engine, a Cougar gains some low-end muscle if equipped with the V6, but passing power is unimpressive. So is acceleration, with almost 10 seconds needed to reach 60 mph in an automatic-transmission Cougar. The automatic shifts fluidly, but hunts annoyingly between gears in hilly terrain and lacks a provision to lock out overdrive fourth gear. Neither engine matches Japanese-brand rivals for refinement or high-revving fun."Domestic idiots are just as bad as ricers![ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: sureshiit ]<hr></blockquote>The manual transaxle Cougar is rated with a 7.9 second 0-60. The Automatic does have an overdrive lockout button. I know, because I press it. I can even take a picture if you want.

Consumer Reports doesn't always have the best reviews, and testing an automatic Cougar is the worst thing they could possibly have done.

MX-3.com

MX-3 vs MERCURY COUGAR

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