Making a list for K8 To KLZE swap

[libtechsplit]

hi everyone

I'm sure this has been covered many times, but at the risk of getting flamed, im going to ask some tired questions, haha.

I have recently picked up a '96 MX-3 GS with a 5spd . It has 160 000km and a blown up K8 - i got it for 300$.




So, my options are :

Spend lots of money and time rebuilding the K8
Spend less money on an MX-6 motor from pick and pull. (no K8's to be had locally)
or Spend lots of money (1000$) on a KLZE .

I'm trying to talk myself into the KLZE before someone else buys it. It's an OBD1 motor with the straight neck intake on it, but it also comes with an OBD2 KLDE manifold. then there's the stock K8 manifold as well. Which should i use? The curve neck one is the easiest to Physically use, because theres no brake booster mod, correct?

then what ECU should i use with it? I assume i will need an ECU from a KLDE , and a matching VAF? this motor doesnt come with a VAF as far as i know. From what i've read so far the K8 ECU doesnt work well with the 2.5L KLZE ? or is it not that bad.

is using a different ECU just a plug n play deal, or is there splicing involved to make it work?

funny the more i read the more confused i get. i'm trying to minimise wasting money on unnecessary parts, but also would like to pick everything up at once, since the junk yard is over an hour away from me. That trip gets old quick..

any links to good build threads would be greatly appreciated

[RobMinhas]

Do it right and do it once, the others can flame you but I don't think you're doing anything wrong.

For the engine, I would not bother rebuilding a K8, when my K8 died I just stuck another one in from a parts car but if I couldn't get the parts car I would have grabbed a KL-DE for >$500 and called it a day. Well I actually would have put a BP in but that's not really useful here.

ZE will net you another 20ish horsepower which might make it worth the value to you, for the ZE swap all you will need is the engine, ecu and maf. Your existing trans, mounts, engine harness will all be compatible. ZE ecu is a KL-36 ECU which will run you a $100 or so most likely. The MAF you'll need is a JE-50, which comes with almost all K8s I believe(someone will have to clear this one up, as I believe this to be true for OBD1 K8s). Which isn't horribly hard to get a hold of and even a JY will sell you one for like 30 bucks.

The intake mani that comes with ZE motors has a straight neck manifold, which hits the brake booster on an OEM mx-3 but since you've got a DE one you'll have no issues with clearance, you might lose a handful of horsepower this way but it will clear without you needing to modify your brake booster. Some folks put on a 2.5L KLG4 Mazda Millennia intake manifold on instead which flows better then a curved neck manifold and will still clear the brake booster(you will have to use your existing throttlebody though for clearance IIRC).

A K8 manifold will also fit and will probably rob some power from you, most folks a mentionable increase when swapping any of the KL manifolds instead of the K8.

For a KL-DE swap you'll need the engine, ecu and maf again. Not sure about which maf you'll need here, or if a K8 one will work, someone else will have to chime in here. The engine and ECU will cost you significantly less then a KL-ZE.

Best bang for your buck here IMO is to swap in a KL-DE engine, won't be as fast as a KL-XE but it will cost you much less and probably will cost you as much another K8 or a K8 rebuild.

And you said you got confused from doing some reading, ask some specific questions, a lot of the KL guys here know their s--- really well and can help.

[RX8SE3P]

Try finding a damaged MX-6/626/Probe with a decent 2.5L engine in it. That's one option.

I would definitely say you should go with the DE swap.

You will need the following:

Timing belt kit + hydraulic tensioner or make/buy a manual tensioner
Water Pump
Clutch kit (for mx6)
KLDE ECU + KL02 VAF (Even with a KLZE this combo will still work just fine)
Fluids: engine oil/ATF (for power steer)/brake fluid
Change fuel filter while engine is out
Change all vacuum hoses on the manifold
Maybe change all coolant hoses while your engine is out (some annoying ones on throttle body and around there).
Consider valve cover gaskets as it's a b---- to remove the IM just to change the rear VCG
Drive shaft seals (only a few bucks for genuine mazda)

And any little things that are easier to do with the engine out!

[Savin]

Since you're OBDII, your ECU and MAF (96 should have a MAF) should be able to compensate for the increase in motor size. Make sure you use all the sensors from your current engine if you stick with OBDII, or else you'll have to convert to an OBDI harness and computer.

If I were you, I'd find a 96-97 probe/mx-6, and yank out its engine/ECU/MAF just to be safe.

The only person I can currently think of off the top of my head that did a KL swap into a 96 and keep it OBDII would be Daninski. Maybe he'll chime in.

[RX8SE3P]

libtechsplit - Find out first for a fact, if you are OBD2 or OBD1. Otherwise you could waste money on the wrong ECU's as they might not plug up to your wiring loom!

[libtechsplit]

so thats 2 votes for the junkyard KLDE. definitely cheaper, but a roll of the dice as far as engine reliability goes..

Try finding a damaged MX-6/626/Probe with a decent 2.5L engine in it. That's one option.

I would definitely say you should go with the DE swap.

You will need the following:

Timing belt kit + hydraulic tensioner or make/buy a manual tensioner - got it
Water Pump - got it
Clutch kit (for mx6)
KLDE ECU + KL02 VAF (Even with a KLZE this combo will still work just fine)
Fluids: engine oil/ATF (for power steer)/brake fluid
Change fuel filter while engine is out
Change all vacuum hoses on the manifold
Maybe change all coolant hoses while your engine is out (some annoying ones on throttle body and around there).
Consider valve cover gaskets as it's a b---- to remove the IM just to change the rear VCG
Drive shaft seals (only a few bucks for genuine mazda)

And any little things that are easier to do with the engine out!

good list, thank you

Since you're OBDII, your ECU and MAF (96 should have a MAF) should be able to compensate for the increase in motor size. Make sure you use all the sensors from your current engine if you stick with OBDII, or else you'll have to convert to an OBDI harness and computer.

If I were you, I'd find a 96-97 probe/mx-6, and yank out its engine/ECU/MAF just to be safe.

The only person I can currently think of off the top of my head that did a KL swap into a 96 and keep it OBDII would be Daninski. Maybe he'll chime in.

there are a few good donors in the yard right now, but the newest one is only a '94...

libtechsplit - Find out first for a fact, if you are OBD2 or OBD1. Otherwise you could waste money on the wrong ECU's as they might not plug up to your wiring loom!

really? i thought it was a slam dunk that it would be OBD2 since it was built in 96... no i havent actually looked for the obd2 connector though...

[RX8SE3P]

Best to be sure before you spend $$ buying stuff

[Daninski]

This swap is one of the easiest for sure. If you go ZE then simply use a KL02 VAF from a Probe, MX6 or 626 instead of the stock JE50. Curved neck intake is the most popular but you can use a straight one as well. Here's a link to the O2 sensors you'll need, use new ones for sure. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65706 I would advise against swaping ECU's because with your OBD2 ECU and the KL02 VAF the engine will run great. Your ECU will adjust the fuel to compensate for the bigger (220 vs 180cc) ZE/DE injectors.
HEI link. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69006

Adjusting your TPS is very important and I would also check the idle screw(top of throttle body) adjustment as well. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=81022&p=625291&hil ... PS#p625291

Finally filling your engine mounts to stiffen them up is a good idea for the extra HP. I filled them and had no problems. This is the best stuff here but others have used cheaper sh*t with satisfactory results. http://www.devcon.com/products/products ... 4%20Liquid

Last but certainly not least members who installed a ZE will tell you there's a 2" gain in penis length after the first successful test drive with your new ZE

Cheers

Couple good reads,,,well nitefires anyway lol. viewtopic.php?f=46&t=57968
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=65550&hilit=daninski

PS: No such thing as OBD1 or OBD2 engine. Engine is as you configure it.

[libtechsplit]

This swap is one of the easiest for sure. If you go ZE then simply use a KL02 VAF from a Probe, MX6 or 626 instead of the stock JE50. Curved neck intake is the most popular but you can use a straight one as well. Here's a link to the O2 sensors you'll need, use new ones for sure. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65706 I would advise against swaping ECU's because with your OBD2 ECU and the KL02 VAF the engine will run great. Your ECU will adjust the fuel to compensate for the bigger (220 vs 180cc) ZE/DE injectors. cool, did you have CEL issues? i can live with that, but just curious.

HEI link. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69006

Adjusting your TPS is very important and I would also check the idle screw(top of throttle body) adjustment as well. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=81022&p=625291&hil ... PS#p625291

Finally filling your engine mounts to stiffen them up is a good idea for the extra HP. I filled them and had no problems. This is the best stuff here but others have used cheaper sh*t with satisfactory results. http://www.devcon.com/products/products ... 4%20Liquid

Last but certainly not least members who installed a ZE will tell you there's a 2" gain in penis length after the first successful test drive with your new ZE sweet - i knew i'd make 6" one day

Cheers

Couple good reads,,,well nitefires anyway lol. viewtopic.php?f=46&t=57968
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=65550&hilit=daninski

PS: No such thing as OBD1 or OBD2 engine. Engine is as you configure it. yes, true. my bad

thats an awesome collection of links !

[libtechsplit]

ok got started getting the K8 out today, put in about 5 hrs before it got dark.

got all the plastic off, removed hood, unplugged and labelled the harness, removed fuel lines, removed exhaust, removed battery, undid heater core lines, etc.

I think I have 2 things left. deal with the power steering - that thing is a b---- to get at, even with the use of a hoist. I cant really see what bolts will remove it from the block. And get the axles disconnected. I was going to pop the ball joint and reef the strut out until the inner cup came free. is there an easier way?

overall, nothing has really fought me yet, but its kind of all been easy stuff. tomorrow is chain up time and yank both the motor and trans out the top.

[RobMinhas]

The PS is pretty awkward, best to go over the top IMO. You have to remove the actual pump from the bracket, then the bracket from the trans(it likes to catch on stuff too, POS).

For the axles I removed the axle nuts, undid the struts, and pulled the axles out that way. Make it easier since theres a halfshaft that needs to be unbolted too.

[RX8SE3P]

Removing the intake manifold may make things a lot easier with the PS hose removal. I don't remember actually removing my PS pump when I did my swap.

[libtechsplit]

i wanted to get the pump off, so i could leave it behind with the car instead of disconnecting the lines, but i remember the pump is shot anyway... so it'll have so come out now or after.

The PS is pretty awkward, best to go over the top IMO. You have to remove the actual pump from the bracket, then the bracket from the trans(it likes to catch on stuff too, POS).

For the axles I removed the axle nuts, undid the struts, and pulled the axles out that way. Make it easier since theres a halfshaft that needs to be unbolted too.

so you removed the whole strut? or just the bottom mount and then pushed the A-arm down till the axle came off?

[RobMinhas]

Removed axle nuts, removed two bolts on the strut to seperate the strut and the spindle, removed brake line mount thing and then just pulled the spindle out till I could get the axle out of the spindle. Then pulled the axle out by tugging to the side and yanking after prying from the actual trans.

[libtechsplit]

ahh i see. I ended up sticking with popping the ball joint only on the advice of my mechanic friend, since it doesnt affect the alignment that way. it was a bit of a pain to get them free but not bad really.

The k8 is now out, and im headed out to pick up the KLZE . i wish this forum had *dancing banana* lol

800$ for motor with probe trans attached, k&n filter, and flowmaster exhaust... sound like a good deal? i think im ok with it.