Financial Advice - Rob Peter to Pay Paul!

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onlytrueromeo
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Re: Financial Advice - Rob Peter to Pay Paul!

Post by onlytrueromeo »

Kris,

I did not have your numbers exactly, and wrote that post quickly before work this morning. I am an engineering & business major, and took a number of economics / statistics and accounting classes that all touched on had a big part on compound interest, and ROI. From what you are telling me, you are not fully understanding the principles behind it. No matter what your numbers are - if the interest of the personal loan is greater than that of the mortgage - you will come out behind, rather than if you just put that money into the mortgage. The ONLY reason you are saving money is this scenario is because you are increasing your monthly payment. It doesn't matter if it's in a different loan or tacked on to the same mortgage, you are paying it down faster.

I'm not quite sure where your thought of saving money is coming from, unless you are thinking that the mortgage will "compound faster" than the personal loan. It does not matter how much $$ is in either loan - it is the interest rates, and to some degree the number of compounding periods that drives everything.

No, these are not your numbers. BUT IT DOESNT MATTER! Let me show you 3 breakdowns with different loans all at the same rate.

$100,000, 5% interest - 10yrs - monthly payment = 1060.66 total amount paid (principle + interest) =$127,278.62

$95,000, 5% interest - 10yrs - monthly payment = 1007.62 total amount paid (principle + interest) = $120,914.69
$5,000, 5% interest - 10yrs - monthly payment = 53.03 total amount paid (principle + interest) = $6,363.93

$20,000, 5% interest - 10yrs - monthly payment = 212.13 total amount paid (principle + interest) = $25,455.72

Now, lets add the totals so we have 3 sets of $100k loans....they all come out equal! So this means, no matter the loan breakdown - if interest rate and repayment periods are the same, the total interest is the same as well. With a shorter repayment period (as I detailed previously) the total interest paid goes down. The total interest paid goes up if you increase the interest rate.

Long story short - Will you save money overall by taking out a personal loan, so you are not only paying the mortgage, but the personal loan as well? Yes. Will it be as much money as you could have saved if you invested the same monthly payment regularly into the mortgage instead? No. Not by a long shot. Unless the personal loan has a lower average interest rate over the life of the loan. Also, by taking out personal loans, you are not only hurting your credit, you are sacrificing $5,000 x % interest in tax write offs. ALSO, with the method I propose - you are not committing to a higher repayment amount. So, if for some reason, you cannot afford that extra payment one month, you can skip it with no actual penalty. Try doing that with a personal loan!

I'm sorry if you don't see it now, or don't believe me. But here is a quick mortgage calculator to show you the amortization tables as well as adding extra money monthly, yearly or balloon payments as you suggest. You can then prove to yourself how what I am saying is correct. http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mor ... lator.aspx :shrug:
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SuperK
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Re: Financial Advice - Rob Peter to Pay Paul!

Post by SuperK »

Well I have one-upped you, and took out one of daninski's "interest-free" loans, see? which means, I win!



I see what you're saying...


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onlytrueromeo
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Re: Financial Advice - Rob Peter to Pay Paul!

Post by onlytrueromeo »

By all means, if you can get an interest free loan, and pay it off before the ridiculous % rate increase kicks in DO IT!!

But, those loans, just like the "0% financing on new furniture for 6 months!!" ad's can be for suckers. If something sounds too good to be true - it usually is. I have used the 0% loan/buy thing a few times. The trick is to pay in full 100% by the terms stated in the contract or else you will be liable for the compounded interest from the start of the loan, not just the amount of the loan left on the principle. Bad stuff.

I hope you really do see my point, and don't just want me to shut up :P Seriously, overpay your mortgage. And your car loan. And student loans. Etc. Mortgage will get you equity - but equity will only help you get new loans / improve credit score at this point. My advice is to overpay everything a little, and overpay whatever loan you have that is the higher % the most. Currently, I am overpaying my mortgage the most, even though it is the lowest interest rate, because I have PMI. Once I pay that off, my interest rate drops 1.2%. This means I can lower my monthly mortgage payments by $100/mo when it finishes.

If you ever need financial advice, let me know. I'm not a professional, but I've gotten pretty good results with my limited budget / massive bills. I make 50k, and my wife is currently out of work. She works 2 "part time" jobs waiting and contract editing, and is trying to make it in real estate, since that is turning out to be a better career than teaching right now... I have 1100 a month in student loans (hers are in deferment), 500/mo car payments and 1300/mo in mortgage, insurance, taxes, etc. Do the math - my bills are higher than my income. It is a miserable situation, BUT we are actually still saving for retirement, not loading our credit cards, and getting by. For extra cash, I buy / resell things on craigslist. Her limited income helps. I have some minor investments in the stock market that have netted me 10%/yr return. And we are super frugal / coupon / sale people. We recently got married, and paid for the wedding in near entirety on our own. She was working while we saved, which was HUGE. We had no debt from the wedding.

I know you are good with your money, otherwise you would not have what you have after all you have been through with jobs, women, etc. over the last few years. Keep it up! We will struggle together, and someday maybe win the lotto and build an MX3 salvage haven!
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Re: Financial Advice - Rob Peter to Pay Paul!

Post by RobMinhas »

Good god this thread makes me feel young and financially uneducated.
Daninski wrote:This is my MX3. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My MX3 is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life. My MX3, without me, is useless. Without my MX3, I am useless. I must fire up my MX3 true. I must drive straighter than any Honda driver who is trying to own me. I must own him before he owns me.
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SuperK
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Re: Financial Advice - Rob Peter to Pay Paul!

Post by SuperK »

For me, with my interest rates, every dollar I put in today, is worth two out the backside. 15k in monthly prepayments (which is like 60/month or something) saves 15k out the end. 15k today, is worth 30k at the end. There is a healthy balance to it all.

there are definite pro's and cons to both methods, and getting rid of PMI early is one of my goals is why I'm trying to dump a lump sum in today. Once I hit 78% principle balance, I will save something like 60-70/month or whatnot, PMI ... I detest it more than I detest interest.

but call me crazy, when I take a few classes, I'm pulling out student loans where I can, and dumping a portion of that into my mortgage, i'll take the interest free loans for as long as I can defer them and make that money count some way or the other. then work reimburses me for the tuition, so I don't have to pay that... Took a loan on my car (really low interest rate) and used most of that money towards the house, so very soon, pmi will be gone. until they slap me with a, "oh, you now have to have pmi for x amount of years" excuse, at least.
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