still burning too much gas...

[Daninski]

Ya, K8 injectors are 180cc where as DE or ZE injectors are 220cc. Rich running is much less destructive than lean running.

[Nd4SpdSe]

The ECU expects certain parts to be there, as like the K8 ECU not working properly, pulsing for 180cc injectors, but in actuality they're 220cc (minus the smarter OBDII system), the inverse will happen using K8 injectors with a KLZE ECU.

You could maybe try using K8 injectors with a K8 ECU and VAF in a KL (hoping the ECU can up the duty cycle enough to compensate for the demand at WOT), I don't think I've seen anyone do that before, but than again, there shouldn't be a problem with running a DE ECU/VAF.

[Juans_93_MX3]

So I just got done reading the 8+ pages of your thread.
You have failed to mention what plugs and wires you are running and when was the last time you did routine maintenance (fuel filter, TIMING BELT, TIMING, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coolant change, oil filter, etc).
I know... its stupid to ask such a simple question. As a Mechanical Engineering student and a car mechanic hobbyist, I have always learned that you want to start off with the simple and obvious before changing theoretical equations/mechanical stuff.
Are you still running a EGR?
By-pass mod?
Give us alot more detail on you ZE swap. What did you keep, what did you get rid of?
Are you sure all spark plug wires are firing? Are plugs gaped?

Also, it seems like you aren't running a HEI mod with a Blaster 2 Coil?
If your are having doubts about your ignition, that's like the first thing you should do!

I may have missed it, but what is your kilometers per liter (km/L)?
Yes... I want to convert this to the dumb US "miles per gallon".

Also, it seems like you are comparing your MPG (miles per gallon), or excuse me, your MPL (meters per liter) with another member who has the same or similar setup as yours.
Several things should be taken into consideration. Elevation, outside temperature, car use, time of car use, transmission, wheels and driving habits.
Infact, how are you measuring your gas mileage... I mean gas meterage?
Do you take note of your km off your spedometer and how much gas you put in everytime you refuel on gas? Using a device to measure fuel consumption may not be the best idea.

Personally, I dont think its a great idea to use a modded car of any type as a daily driver. You should buy a early 1990s Civic DX for a daily driver. I am getting 40MPG on my Civic EX. A V6 MX3 with a stock K8 is rated at like 25MPG.
Huge difference. Seems like Honda did a much better job at engineering vehicles (in the early 90s) that got consistent gas mileage.

[Nd4SpdSe]

A V6 MX3 with a stock K8 is rated at like 25MPG.
Huge difference. Seems like Honda did a much better job at engineering vehicles (in the early 90s) that got consistent gas mileage.

I can't link on YouTube since it's blocked at work, but best motoring said that the milleage was 28mpg, and they got 30 out of their test car

Up to recently with the SkyActiv, Mazda always got subpar mileage compared to the rest, but was always made to be fun to drive. Ya my parents have a 2010 Civic DX, but I'd rather take a Mazda3 in a heartbeat.

[wytbishop]

So far I agree with more or less everything crazycanadian has said in this thread. I don't find him condescending and I have learned a couple things from his posts. And to clarify, a Vane Meter Sensor is a type of Mass Flow Sensor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_flow_sensor) so to use the term MAF to descibe our air flow meter is not incorrect and he doesn't deserve to be attacked for it. That's all I will say about that.

If it is really rich, and we assume that the O2 sensors are working properly and that the ECU is doing the best it can with the fuel maps it makes sense to me that the ECU probably thinks there's a lot more air being metered than there actually is...and is adding more fuel that required. Thinking about how it calculates the air intake I would say that perhaps the VAF is reporting incorrectly, perhaps the IAT is reporting incorrectly?

I don't think it's a richness problem or an oxygen sensor issue. You're simply putting a lot of air through the engine and the ECU is putting a lot of fuel in as a result. If your A/F ratio was off I'm sure a diagnostic computer would be able to tell you that. It would be easy enough, and more or less affordable to put a wide band o2 sensor after the collector.

[mikeinaus]

So I just got done reading the 8+ pages of your thread.
You have failed to mention what plugs and wires you are running and when was the last time you did routine maintenance (fuel filter, TIMING BELT, TIMING, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coolant change, oil filter, etc).
I know... its stupid to ask such a simple question. As a Mechanical Engineering student and a car mechanic hobbyist, I have always learned that you want to start off with the simple and obvious before changing theoretical equations/mechanical stuff.
Are you still running a EGR?
By-pass mod?
Give us alot more detail on you ZE swap. What did you keep, what did you get rid of?
Are you sure all spark plug wires are firing? Are plugs gaped?

Also, it seems like you aren't running a HEI mod with a Blaster 2 Coil?
If your are having doubts about your ignition, that's like the first thing you should do!

I may have missed it, but what is your kilometers per liter (km/L)?
Yes... I want to convert this to the dumb US "miles per gallon".

Also, it seems like you are comparing your MPG (miles per gallon), or excuse me, your MPL (meters per liter) with another member who has the same or similar setup as yours.
Several things should be taken into consideration. Elevation, outside temperature, car use, time of car use, transmission, wheels and driving habits.
Infact, how are you measuring your gas mileage... I mean gas meterage?
Do you take note of your km off your spedometer and how much gas you put in everytime you refuel on gas? Using a device to measure fuel consumption may not be the best idea.

Personally, I dont think its a great idea to use a modded car of any type as a daily driver. You should buy a early 1990s Civic DX for a daily driver. I am getting 40MPG on my Civic EX. A V6 MX3 with a stock K8 is rated at like 25MPG.
Huge difference. Seems like Honda did a much better job at engineering vehicles (in the early 90s) that got consistent gas mileage.

havnt gone threw the entire thread in a while but i had some info in the first post i may have erased... plugs and wires were replaced around october. also the disty cap/rotor have been replaced. i have also tried 2 different distys and get the same mileage with both. general maintenance is all up to date and then some. everything i can think of that would have an effect on the mileage has been replaced within the past year.

no i do not have a working egr. the engine is a curved neck klze, it comes with a factory blockoff plate. after installing the de ecu/vaf i obtained a millenia egr i was planning on installing. since then ive had it hooked up just dangling in my engine bay to remove the cel light.

to keep track of my fuel mileage i was using an app on my phone and logged the reading on my odometer and amount of fuel every fillup. i recently lost the data but i had every fill up from last august till about a month ago and my average was around 13l/100km which is roughly 18mpg. i also have a fuel mileage computer that gives me instant readings of how much fuel is being used in real time based on injector pulses and vehicle speed sensor readings. i know its not ideal to compare one car to anothers for fuel mileage as there are tuns of variables but using around 60% more fuel then a member with a similar setup indicates a problem to me more so then driving habits or altitude. im also at sea level so if anything i should be getting better mileage then a member from ontario at a higher elevation.

my driving is all city, most recently it has been short 10 min trips too and from school, but before that i was delivering pizza with multiple short trips a night. also my chipped ecu gives me almost exaclty the same mileage as my de ecu/vaf.

crazycanadian was suggesting we look into modifying the vaf. either changing the spring tension or with a stepped resistor of some type, we should be able to manually make the car think its getting less air then it is. if i was to install an exhaust temp gauge i think i could dial back the reading from the vaf to the ecu by a certain % until i get a cleaner burn.

[Nd4SpdSe]

EGR shouldn't affect mileage, mine didn't have it, none of ours did in the area actually.

my driving is all city, most recently it has been short 10 min trips too and from school, but before that i was delivering pizza with multiple short trips a night.

Maybe that's part of your problem. For the longest time, my drive to work/school was around 20minutes, most of it on an 80km/h road (passing a few cars, full out through the main street tunnel, good times). I drove the car hard every damn day, she took it like a b--- and love it....mileage was good, so I didn't care, was fun, enjoyed the car and the ZE. Usually made a trip to Toronto once a week for an Mx-3 meet

When I worked in VA, I had the Mx-3 down for a summer. The drive was about the same, but it was constant lights, constant stop-go, traffic sucked, and I didn't have anywhere to go on the weekends, usually stuck around and used the company van since they paid for the gas anyway, and 3 adults don't fit in the Mx-3 well anyway. To the point, I remember getting a HORRIBLE mileage for a bit, I think about 250km on a tank, almost half. Struck me as odd. The fix? I long highway run back to Ontario. Noticed she didn't like the pure, slow citing driving.

Maybe that's the ticket. All of us had similar setups, got great mileage, did a ot of highway and drove our cars like we stole it. As soon as my car saw short runs, she really didn't like it at at all. Everyone now is trying to take it easy to get good mileage, but maybe that's being counter-productive, the motor doesn't like it.

[Juans_93_MX3]

What brand plugs and wires?

[Nd4SpdSe]

I used NGK Iridiums. Got them for the Probe FS 2.0L 4cyl

Wires they were the blue NGK's (like stock) I think, ordered them through CT, got them for the K8 (so they were short so couldn't run them nicely like those of the KL wires). They came in half a taped and torn up box and cost me $160 I believe

[Nd4SpdSe]

I can't link on YouTube since it's blocked at work, but best motoring said that the milleage was 28mpg, and they got 30 out of their test car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smBpaiFBZkU

[Daninski]

Ok, I've read this post and there's lots of,,,expert advise and I add myself to that list, . Can we do a summation that may actually nail this problem down.
I vote that part of the problem is his 2.5" exhaust but I also feel one very important issue may of been over looked or I over looked it in this thread. He's complaining about lack of power and bad fuel mileage. Compression test?

[Nd4SpdSe]

Can't be the exhaust, 2.5" was common long time ago. People were obsessed with finding 2.5' ID exhaust piping for a while. I had 2.5" crushed bent, with headers. Now people are going with 2.25"

[mikeinaus]

Ok, I've read this post and there's lots of,,,expert advise and I add myself to that list, . Can we do a summation that may actually nail this problem down.
I vote that part of the problem is his 2.5" exhaust but I also feel one very important issue may of been over looked or I over looked it in this thread. He's complaining about lack of power and bad fuel mileage. Compression test?

i cant really confirm lack of power. i havnt driven another ze before so i have no baseline. i just know that my car doesnt feel as fast to me as how people talk about it on the forum. i did a compression test like 6 months ago and i was getting around 195psi each cylinder iirc.

think its possible my car is running ideal and its just the; 200ish lbs ive added with my stereo and rx8 seats, short city driving, 2.5" exhaust/intake and larger rims?

[Ryan]

200 lbs is a lot, thats like a girlfriend and a half in the car.

I don't quite understand how you're comparing your car to what 'people say it feels like'.

Maybe you just have high expectations. Seat design plays a big role in how 'fast' a car feels, so does the tune. a shitty tune might feel fast due to the changes in rates of acceleration, but smooth accel is usually faster...

[mikeinaus]

thats why i said i cant confirm its sluggish. what i do know for sure is my fuel mileage is crap. in my head it makes sense that if its running that rich and burning way more fuel then it should then there has to be some kind of power loss aswell.