A Proper Big Brake Kit

[SBR]

I've been doing some reading, and seen the Subaru Legacy Wagon front caliper upgrade, and the Miata rear upgrade. Doesn't seem that effective to me. My car nosedives on braking. I think it's time to do something about it. Other cars have easy and more noticeable brake upgrade kits, we should too. And not for $2000+, something actually reasonable, in the area of $500 front, $500 rear.

Now this is all purely speculation so far. But I'm willing to put in the time do to it.

What I propose:

• Wilwood 120-6814 calipers (front)
• Wilwood 120-10110-BK and 120-10111-BK calipers (rear)
• Custom mounting brackets
• Braided SS brake lines
• 13" rotors (front)
• 12" rotors (rear)
• Pads
• Adjustable proportioning valve

I don't have the full details yet, or what parts to use exactly. It's to get the ball rolling and get input. I forsee getting rotors to be one of the biggest issues. The calipers chosen are a very close match for our stock rotor thickness, and gives some room for error (ie. thicker rotor required). I'd love to get some input regarding the idea.

[Nd4SpdSe]

My car nosedives on braking.

70% of the braking is done up front

Sounds like you have shitty shocks

Have you actually tried a set of real performance pads and made sure your calipers are ok?

Funny, guarantee most run a cheap $100 NAPA brake job, than complain that they need a $1000 big brake kit.

[SBR]

Shocks are fine, replaced less than a week ago.
Stoptech rotors + Hawk HPS. You have some really low standards if you assume everyone does a NAPA job.

I'm not proposing a $1000 big brake kit like the K-Sport or any other. I'm proposing a better than stock kit that works like stock (parking brake too), better stopping than stock, and a close to stock replacement price. Aimed more towards people who have brakes that are failing and need to replace it. Why pay for stock, when you can have better?

Stock rotor diameters are (roughly) 10.2" front, and 9.8" rear, calipers are 1 piston.

VW Corrado rotors appear to be the largest 4x100 rotor I can find, 280mm (11"), though a 3mm difference in hub diameter (can be resolved by using hubcentric rings?).

May have to go the route of using 5 lug rotors and drilling them for 4x100.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Shocks are fine, replaced less than a week ago.

If your car is nosediving, it doesn't mean your brakes aren't working, it means just the opposite, it means they ARE working. The inertia of the deceleration of the car would put all the forces on the front of the car, and if the tires don't slip, they're going to all translate in to the front brakes and suspension. Rear brakes are suppose to help in the braking, but if they're working properly (should check that), if the car doesn't stay level under hard braking because of the suspension, more weight/forces will translate to the front of the car. But really, you were describing that really should indicate that your brakes should be ok.

There's many members here that race, talk to Mooneggs who autocrosses very regularly. That's the kind of racing that's really hard on brakes. None of the regular racers on this board is running a big brake setup. I ran PBR ceramic pads and slotted/drilled rotors front and rear and that car could lock up the brakes anytime with my stickly Kumho Mx's. Autocross and very spirited driving I never had a problem with fade. I don't see the need for a big brake kit unless you're looking for asthetics with a larger rims; the OEM brakes look tiny with a 17" rim. If someone had a problem with how the Mx-3 performs under braking, I would suggest looking elsewhere to resolve the problem. But, you can't deny the logic of what you said as quoted below.

You have some really low standards if you assume everyone does a NAPA job.

I've been here for a while. While there are still a fair amount of members here that do actual give a crap about using quality parts. The new genration of Mx-3 owners are much less enthousiasts and just trying to keep their $500 car from craping out on them on their way to work. That not you, but for those people that I don't know, I can assume as much because the odds are great that I'm right. Harsh, yes, but being realistic here. See way too many n00bs coming in with big dreams and ideas, all talk and no action (especially when it comes to non-conventional motor swaps).

There's a few guys and threads related to big brake kits and they're working on. If you haven't checked Wytbishop's threads on his exploration on it, I would HIGHLY suggest you do as a starting point.

Why pay for stock, when you can have better?

Damn straight. So true

[BornSticky]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Caliper-Brake-c ... c9&vxp=mtr
maybe you just need a placebo

[mikeinaus]

i think most peoples desire for bigger brakes come from the pedal feel and nothing about the brakes. lets face it our pedals are spongy at best. you need to press them down quite a bite to get the brakes to come to life (compared to newer cars anyways). im not saying they feel like there's air in the lines, they just have a soft wimpy pedal feel. even with bigger calipers i dont think that feeling will go away. i believe its in the design of the the entire system thats the problem (vacuum booster and master cylinder mainly). id talk to someone who has swapped in the 323 spindles and larger calipers and see if the pedal feel was actually improved.

the thing with brakes is if you can lock them or or engage the abs when you mash the pedal then braking force isnt really the problem. id look at your tires for the biggest most cost effective improvement.

and another thing. yes people would want a relatively cheap upgrade, and yes many people have tried and failed multiple times trying to come up with one. we have a system that works, if its too expensive for you perhaps you should just leave well enough alone?

[BornSticky]

instead get the brake covers!

[onlytrueromeo]

I wouldn't knock the guy - I would love to see this come to fruition.

I do not, however, see this happening for less than 1k unless we get somewhere near 50+ buyers. Unless you own a fab shop and can create a complete kit, getting a complete brake setup is going to be expensive.

If it works out though - good on ya. And you may see me jump on board. Is this planned on being a 1x deal or an ongoing supply?

[SBR]

I wouldn't knock the guy - I would love to see this come to fruition.

I do not, however, see this happening for less than 1k unless we get somewhere near 50+ buyers. Unless you own a fab shop and can create a complete kit, getting a complete brake setup is going to be expensive.

If it works out though - good on ya. And you may see me jump on board. Is this planned on being a 1x deal or an ongoing supply?

My car's going to be guinea pig to get everything right. So till I complete it on my car, and know what issues there may be, it's just in the air. If there is interest in it, and it did not require a ton of work to make it right, then

The calipers are so far the most expensive part at $140 roughly each. The rears are... $240, for the combination parking brake and caliper. Hopefully can find a better deal elsewhere. Also considering just abandoning parking brake (I don't even have it anymore after the cable snapped, everywhere wants an arm, a leg and my left nut for it), and just using the same caliper all around, then adjusting bias towards front.
Mounting brackets should be no more than $10 each.
Rotors, so far aiming to get the 1990 VW Corrado rotors, about $35 each, including a hub ring. Offset is incorrect but close enough to work. Worst case scenario, a spacer is needed.
Pads, $50 for front, $50 for rear.
SS lines are $50 from a local company.
Proportioning valve is about $30.

So, worst case scenario, looking at about $445 for front, and $645 for rears. I'm still in the research phase. It's not looking to be too expensive. The calipers are the biggest cost right now. If I can find cheaper ones that don't compromise on performance, then it'll be much better. Goal is about $100/caliper.

And for those people who say it's a waste of money, it's not if your car can use the extra braking power.
In example: my buddy's S2000 with a proper front diffuser and rear spoiler couldn't lock up the brakes in city traffic with a big brake kit. Without the diffuser and spoiler, easily engages ABS.
It's not placebo effect. It's whether your car is able to make use of it. If yours can't, then don't whine.

If I can find calipers for $100, then problem solved, and I have my brake kit all around for cheap.

[kulluminati777]

i dont want a bigger kit just better then OEM, i want to continue to be able to use my mazdaspeed MS-01's

[onlytrueromeo]

I find the parking brake invaluable, as I almost never park in gear unless I am on a steep hill.

[SBR]

Picked up a pair of calipers local, Wilwood Forged Dynalite 120-6811, $250 local. However, they are available from Autoplicity.com for $105. Physically, they are just a little bigger than stock I'd like to go with the largest possible rotor while keeping support for 15" stock rims.

Time to mess with brackets!

[AaronTietje]

The biggest problem that you will run into is that in order to get a bracket to work with your 5.25 in bolt spacing on your calipers you will have to go to a 13-14 in Rotor. When I was trying to use an 11.75 caliper, I was super close to my 16 in rim. Also, you will not be able to go any smaller than a 13 in rotor diameter and be able to make a bracket. The factory mx3 caliper mounting points stick out too far. A possible solution is a radial mount caliper. However, when I spoke with ksport (they use radial mounts) they said that all they could do for the mx-3 is a 14in front big brake kit due to clearance. Anywho if you want to give me a call I can let you know what I was able to find out in my search for the same thing. (pm me for my number if you want) All in all, I have decided to do the probe 5lug swap and use this setup.

[mitmaks]

Interesting, keep us updated. I would think you should do little bigger that way you'd need 16"s

[kulluminati777]

it would be amazing if you could have a set up that fits 15's