Starter or starter relay problem?

[MrSomebody]

Hello again, I'm back with more problems and surprises from my car . Car- mazda mx-3, engine 1.8v6.
The thing is- when I turn the ignition key, nothing happens. All the dash lights just go out(like there is no juice). Starter is not kicking in, instead there is some wierd clicking noise somewhere in the panel(sounds like behind a radio) but it doesn't click every time (only sometimes,very rare). I can't start the car with ignition, only if someone towed me.
I was really convinced about starter itself, but then I browsed around google, and it seems there is some kind of starter relay. Is it hard to get to it and repair, or maybe just bypass it? This problem happens very rare(I can start my car like 10x times a day,whole month, but then -one time it would just be dead).

What I did myself(for you not to think I don't do anything myself)
1- charged the battery(it is brand new, but you never know).
2- Checked the starter wiring, to see if any wire has become loose (everything was great,not even a little bit of corrosion).
3- Checked the ignition wires(with multimeter,to see if maybe the electricity is going where it should- all good there).

Your thoughts on this matter would be appreciated, because I can't trust my car anymore since I must get in with a though-''maybe it won't turn on this time''.
Thanks again!

[Ryan]

No such thing as a starter relay, the shuttle solenoid that pushes the starter gear into the ring gear is the relay.

Check your battery terminals, that is the first place to start. take them off, and put them back on. Wire brush the mess if you have one.

Do you have an immobilizer?

[MrSomebody]

No such thing as a starter relay, the shuttle solenoid that pushes the starter gear into the ring gear is the relay.

Check your battery terminals, that is the first place to start. take them off, and put them back on. Wire brush the mess if you have one.
Do you have an immobilizer?

As I said- battery is brand new. All terminals are clean and have good connection.
I don't have an immobilizer.

But if that's the only relay, then what makes that clicking sound? It really sounds like somewhere behind the radio.

P.s- I found this one interesting- ''Ignition Starter Switch''. Is it the switch that goes where ignition key is being turned?
I really doubt that it might be something with a ignition system . If it would be, than it would be obvious I think. Is there any way to check it?

[SuperK]

sometimes the clutch switch is funky, so if it doesn't start, you can pump the clutch and turn the key till it starts. I disassembled the clutch switch and it's a spring loaded doohickey that wears out, and doesn't connect all the way.

Otherwise you can always run a ground direct from the starter to the frame to make sure you're grounded properly

[MrSomebody]

sometimes the clutch switch is funky, so if it doesn't start, you can pump the clutch and turn the key till it starts. I disassembled the clutch switch and it's a spring loaded doohickey that wears out, and doesn't connect all the way.

Otherwise you can always run a ground direct from the starter to the frame to make sure you're grounded properly

About that clutch switch... . What exactly it does? I didn't know it helps somehow with starting the car

And could it cause all the cluster lights go out? I think there is some short-circuit somewhere, but it would be very good if someone could at least show me the direction where to look. I can't afford to ask a mechanic to check all my car wires and stuff like that, it would be cheaper to buy a new car then .
I prefer to do stuff on my own as much as I can

as for now I know that I must check :
1) starter (I hope it's not too hard to get it out)
2)Ignition stuff (I understand that it's where key goes).
3)This clutch stuff(which I have no idea is located,I presume somewhere near clutch pedal ).

Any other ideas?

[SuperK]

if your lights are shutting off, that means there's a short somewhere. My battery had both top posts and side posts for inputs... and the caps fell off the side posts, and the side posts would hit the car frame and short out.

so if it makes funny noises and the lights shut off when you turn the key, sounds like a short. if the lights just dim slightly, that sounds normal, I would inspect the clutch switch. it just makes sure that the clutch is disengaged before you start cranking it, so it's a safety measure preventing you from ramming into whatever is in front of you.

[Ryan]

Nooo! wrong tree!

Dash lights are SUPPOSED to go out when cranking. All accessories are to be OFF (blower motor too) so the battery is putting all of its amperage into the starter.

The click is going to be a relay that does this, that is a good noise, that means your ignition system is working properly from an electrical point.

Does the starter solenoid fire? It is a heavier, more metallic clunk from the engine bay.

K is right about the clutch switch. Push your foot ALL the way to the floor. Extra hard.


IF THE SOLENOID FIRES - Try tapping the starter motor itself with a hammer or something with they key in the crank position. If your brushes are super low it may need a nudge just to get the motion to start it up. My red... er, grey car is like this.

^DO THIS!

Its easy and free, and if you don't I refuse to help you any more.

[MrSomebody]

IF THE SOLENOID FIRES - Try tapping the starter motor itself with a hammer or something with they key in the crank position. If your brushes are super low it may need a nudge just to get the motion to start it up. My red... er, grey car is like this.

^DO THIS!
.

I'm sorry, but is it normal to hit something like starter motor with a hammer?!? I want to fix it up, so I don't need to carry around a hammer .
Besides- it's pretty cramped in my engine bay, I can't really get to starter without removing air filter box and all the rubber tube untill MAF.... .
Sounds like you'r trying to pull a joke on me with that hammer thing

[Ryan]

No, I'm really not. If the starter solenoid fires, this will more than likely work. Just a tappity tap tap, not beat the s--- out of it. Even a big screwdriver or wrench would do it.

[MrSomebody]

No, I'm really not. If the starter solenoid fires, this will more than likely work. Just a tappity tap tap, not beat the s--- out of it. Even a big screwdriver or wrench would do it.

Will this work in long term, or I'll have to hit that starter every time?

[Ryan]

No, in long term you buy new starter brushes. Maybe a new rotor too, depending on the wear of yours. Lathing it is an option if its not worn out.


Or, if you're a normal person, a new starter.

[Daninski]

There is a 'hammer your starter' mod. I think it's in the FAQ section. I used an 18oz Estwing on mine.

[MrSomebody]

No, in long term you buy new starter brushes. Maybe a new rotor too, depending on the wear of yours. Lathing it is an option if its not worn out.


Or, if you're a normal person, a new starter.

Just towed it to service, got sick of trying anything and coming up with no results. I think there might be some short, and I'm not so deep into electrical stuff ,so I'm afraid I can f**k anything up
Anyway- I hope there will be answer tommorow, so I will post results.

[Ryan]

I'm curious what the bill will be!


Good luck.

[MrSomebody]

As it turned out, it was bad ground wire in the first place (it was cracked in half somewhere).
And there is some wierd noise when they cranked it up on a test stend, but I will figure that out later.
Overall cost for taking it off/disassembling/putting back and repairing that wire was ~10$.