ball joint and tie rod replacement

[ninjajim4]

My lower ball joints and outer tie rods have some play in them so I wanted to tighten everything up with some new ones. I've never touched the suspension on my own. I just took a look through the shop manual and it looks pretty straightforward to swap these guys out, but I just wanted to see if there's any pitfalls I should avoid or watch out for? Seems like most of you guys have done this already.

Also, while removal looks to be a snap, I wasn't sure if I'd need a press to get these things back in?

thanks, gang

[PATDIESEL]

Tie rod- comes in two pieces, outer and inner. I am assuming you mean outer tie rods as inners are a pain to replace. What you do is mark the threads with some elecrical tape so that you can match the new ones to the same depth as the old ones. This will make the alignment Toe "close" to the old settings. You will still need an alignment after you are finished. I have heard the "no you don't" argument before, it is hogwash and cheap. The tie rod is held onto the spindle with a crown nut. You Need an air compressor to get it off and back on.
Ball Joint- easy breezy, jack the car up, remove the bolt and nut that hold the ball joint to the spindle. (note that the bolt has an indention in it. That is where the ball joint male end meets the bolt that passes next to it and holds the ball joint inside the spindle. This is important because when putting it back together you need to make sure this bolt and the ball joint are aligned correctly or the ball joint will fall out of the spindle while going down the road and that is going to be painful to your car. There are two bolts that hold the ball joint to the lower controll arm. Note that they are one right-side-up and one upside-down, put them back correctly.

If you have to hammer the bolt that holds the ball joint to the spindle, make sure you do so lightly and only after liberal use of some PB Blaster or similar lube. The bolt is dealer only and takes a bit to get a new one.... wonder how I know that don't ya?...

[ninjajim4]

Awesome tips, thanks Pat. Haven't had an alignment in forever, so I was planning on getting it done and therefore not too concerned about getting everything re-lined up as previously.

I do have a small compressor, but I wonder if it's up to snuff... 6 gal, 2.5 HP, supposedly does around 3.5CFM at 90 PSI.

Good to know about that one bolt too, I have not seen that mentioned ANYWHERE. It looks like my joints are coming with the hardware too.. I'm curious to see if it has the proper bolt

[_-Night-Shade-_]

Air compressor to remove the nut?! A bit overkill don't ya think? Just a socket and rachet did it for me. However the biggest problem for me was that everything was pretty much seized so it took a very liberal amount of PB blaster and torching and waiting to get everything to budge. If you're gonna tackle this then definitely spray everything with penetrant the night before and let it soak in.

[ninjajim4]

I'm very concerned about that too.. it's a 92, with 210k on the frame, been through several Chicago winters, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of these nuts haven't been turned since they came out of the factory. Thanks for the advice, gladly accepted..

I don't think you ever truly NEED air tools for anything (I keep a 3 ft. iron pipe around, to keep my breaker bars company). But certainly nice to have. I like to have an excuse for more toys. err.. i mean tools.

[Daninski]

If yours is a 92 it probably has the narrower shaft ball joint. In 93 the shaft was made thicker. When you go to remove the tie rod end you smack the rod end on the side with one good smack (use a small sledge hammer). Don't try to hammer down on the threaded shaft that's not how to remove it. For the ball joint use a long pry bar (3-5ft) and push the lower control arm down. This will allow the ball joint to come out of the wheel hub. Be careful as the lower control arm could snap up and hurt you.

[PATDIESEL]

To remove the tie rod castle nut I bet you need air. The tie rod end will rotate so that a usual socket will only turn both the nut and the tie rod end... You need air to turn it fast enough and with enough torque to get the nut to move faster than the rod end.
Then, like Daminski said, to remove the tie rod from the spindle hit the side of the tie rod with a hammer until it pops loose. Prying it is a bad idea as you an bend the inner rod that way. I usually have to really hit the tie rod pretty hard to get it to come loose. If you need a hand PM me and I'll reply with my phone number to better explain while you are looking at the parts.

DO NOT EVER torch/heat a suspension part. Heat weakens the metal by reforming the alignment of the molecules. This is ok in some situations, but heating a thinner piece of metal that is Reallllly needed to make the car drive is not a good idea. A guy on here did just that with his outer tie rod and it cost him his car when the part broke on a snowy day and he ended up hitting some curb or enbankment or something. Must have been a rough impact after loosing steering control b/c it totaled the car. The break occured only days after replacing that tie rod and he later admitted he should not have used heat to loosen it.

[ninjajim4]

i was just going to go borrow a puller get the tie rod off. or buy, it looked like it was only 15 bucks. supposedly there are ones do both tie rods and ball joints too, though i'm not sure how that would work...

[wytbishop]

The post of the outer tie rod end that passes through the spindle is tapered. It should be wedged in there hard and should not turn when loosening the castelated nut that secures it. You will however need either a heavy hammer (which is difficult to swing in the small space you will be working in) or a "pickle fork" (easier to use but brutish) or a bolt type tie rod end remover (which I recommend and can be found at Princess Auto or such places) to dislodge the tie rod end from the spindle...for sure.

[Ryan]

My two cents on this...

Ball joints aren't a big deal. If you have air, its like 20 minutes a piece. The squeeze bolt is by far the worst part. I suggest NOT turning it, because like someone else mentioned, they do break and they are expensive to replace. IF you have an air hammer, I'd pop it out with that, but still try and be as gentle as you can, with air tools. also make sure to tell them the correct year of car, because I believe we have two sizes of ball joints through the years. When you're done, enjoy a beer, knowing that Honda owners of the same generation have at least 4 more than you, all with annoying breaking squeeze bolts.

The outer tie rod I have never done, but I have one sitting in my parts pile. It has a square end on one side, and as I understand it, it requires a special kind of wrench.

[_-Night-Shade-_]

Reforming the molecules? As far as I can recall heat expands molecules and when they cool they contract, it's this expanding and contracting that allows those seized parts to break loose. He must have been using some heavy duty welding torch lmao, and probably toching the wrong parts too.

Also the tie rod does not rotate in itself - when attached to the steering knuckle it creates a joint which pivots when you turn the streering wheel (thus turning the wheel), and that the crown nut holds together, which is why I was able to remove the crown nut with a simple rachet wrench. And don't forget that there's a cotter pin keeping the crown nut from moving, so you need to take that out before you start going at the nut, cause it won't allow it to turn (which is the only explanation I can think of for needing power tools, but hopefully you guys remembered to take out the cotter pin before wondering why it's not budging ). The crown nut doesn't even need to be on super tight, just tight enough to elimiate vertical play, because the tie rod still needs to be able to rotate freely when attached to the streering knuckle.

[Daninski]

Lamp shade, you need to understand that heat and cold effect metals in various ways. We heat hardened rivets to soften them up then refridgerate them to extend their sofened life. We then install them and as we buck them they begin to harden. Isn't that special.

[_-Night-Shade-_]

o.O

When I was doing this on my red rust bucket I don't think there would have been any way to get it off without heat. Also did this on my current mx3, no problems to date.

[PATDIESEL]

I understand not wanting to take someones word if you disbelieve what they say, but I thought this was more common knowledge. Here is a link to heat treating metal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treatment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The article is more about using heat to harden the metal, but it does touch on using heat to soften it too. The difference in softening or annealing a metal and hardening it is how it is heated, to what temp and how it cools. So torching metal and just letting it cool could result in annealing it.
Just FYI I replaced the tie rod ends for Atlmx3 last night with air in about 20 minutes start to finish, ne heat involved. His car is a 92 RS that was running original parts and he circuit races it about 10 times per year. So it has seen plenty of heat and stress to really stick those buggers in there. I have done this a few times and I only speak from experience. You can Easily do the job without heat, which might be dangerous. So please stop argueing with me.

[_-Night-Shade-_]

People I'm not talking about heat strong enough to break the bonds of the molecules or change the state of the metal, what does heat treatment have to do with this? It's not TREATING the metal, it's just HEATING it. I'm talking like a propane torch. I've never heard that it's bad until now.