WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

TOOgreezy · Post by **TOOgreezy** » January 29th, 2009, 12:18 pm

OK. so i was speaking with "diamond Jap Auto" he said the CURVE neck klze is the 1 for mx3's. he said with the straight neck you would have to change too many things... so he was sayin curve would be better w/ stage 1 clutch?

Just curious which one would u guys recommend... curve or straight
and also what type of clutch...

solo_ryder · Post by **solo_ryder** » January 29th, 2009, 12:38 pm

Well for direct drop in, the cruve neck is best.

For most power, get a straight neck and swap over a curve neck intake manifold.

As for clutches, any brand name ones are good, not ebay crap

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » January 29th, 2009, 1:10 pm

C'mon man, no need to type your title in caps

Solo says the truth. Search on clutches for more info, there's PLENTY of threads relating to it and what NOT to get. If you're curious about the straight-neck swap, search for that too to see what's required.

Daninski · Post by **Daninski** » January 29th, 2009, 7:12 pm

Cams or no cams, how many here could even tell the difference? Curved neck and buy the cams later or not. Again can anyone really tell the difference. Curved necks have more lower end power and that's where we usually need it if it's to be a daily driver.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » January 29th, 2009, 10:04 pm

Well, hard to say, I know my 01 cammed ZE feels like it runs out of steam above 6-6.5k

Besides, almost anyone can change an intake manifold, cams aren't so easy, especially if you've never done anything of the sort before...

solo_ryder · Post by **solo_ryder** » January 29th, 2009, 10:19 pm

Ya you can notice the difference, top end is a lot better with a kl31 cammed ze

RX8SE3P · Post by **RX8SE3P** » January 30th, 2009, 6:55 am

Curved neck is not a true ZE IMO. It's just the Eunos 800 2.5L KLDE that has a few little minor details that give it about 3-4KW more power (5-6 HP).

The straight neck is the true ZE with the better cams.

Honestly, there's not much difference - just get the best cleanest looking one. A crap ZE will make less power than a good DE.

TOOgreezy · Post by **TOOgreezy** » January 30th, 2009, 11:36 am

RX8SE3P wrote:Curved neck is not a true ZE IMO. It's just the Eunos 800 2.5L KLDE that has a few little minor details that give it about 3-4KW more power (5-6 HP).

The straight neck is the true ZE with the better cams.

Honestly, there's not much difference - just get the best cleanest looking one. A crap ZE will make less power than a good DE.

Oh.. I thought curve neck and straight both had 200hp. Thought there was only a difference in torque. So that's incorrect?

Daninski · Post by **Daninski** » January 30th, 2009, 1:24 pm

Excellant point grasshopper

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » January 30th, 2009, 1:29 pm

TOOgreezy wrote:
RX8SE3P wrote:Curved neck is not a true ZE IMO. It's just the Eunos 800 2.5L KLDE that has a few little minor details that give it about 3-4KW more power (5-6 HP).

The straight neck is the true ZE with the better cams.

Honestly, there's not much difference - just get the best cleanest looking one. A crap ZE will make less power than a good DE.
Oh.. I thought curve neck and straight both had 200hp. Thought there was only a difference in torque. So that's incorrect?

No that is correct, there are plenty of dynos out there showing straight necks and curve necks making the exact same numbers, the only difference is where the torque is.

Actually NO klze has 200hp, thats just the number that it has been rounded to, the number is more like 193-198hp.

Post by **Custommx3** » January 30th, 2009, 1:37 pm

RX8SE3P wrote:Curved neck is not a true ZE IMO. It's just the Eunos 800 2.5L KLDE that has a few little minor details that give it about 3-4KW more power (5-6 HP).

The straight neck is the true ZE with the better cams.

Honestly, there's not much difference - just get the best cleanest looking one. A crap ZE will make less power than a good DE.

LMAO!! Please tell me you're joking.. because your absolutley WRONG.

Lets see.

DE VS ZE

ZE has BIGGER RUNNERS (unless your referring to SOME DE's that had ZE heads, and it was a Millenia DE/ZE Hybrid)
ZE has DIFFERENT VALVE RETAINERS
ZE has DIFFERENT HEADS (unless your referring to SOME DE's that had ZE heads, and it was a Millenia DE/ZE Hybrid)
ZE has DIFFERENT CAMS (unless your referring to SOME DE's that had ZE heads, and it was a Millenia DE/ZE Hybrid)
ZE has DIFFERENT PISTONS (higher compression)
ZE has NO EGR
ZE uses a different VAF
ZE uses a different ECU

A DE doesnt make the power of a ZE, period, unless it is modified.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » January 30th, 2009, 1:39 pm

TOOgreezy wrote:
RX8SE3P wrote:Curved neck is not a true ZE IMO. It's just the Eunos 800 2.5L KLDE that has a few little minor details that give it about 3-4KW more power (5-6 HP).

The straight neck is the true ZE with the better cams.

Honestly, there's not much difference - just get the best cleanest looking one. A crap ZE will make less power than a good DE.
Oh.. I thought curve neck and straight both had 200hp. Thought there was only a difference in torque. So that's incorrect?

From the official numbers, it's 198hp and 165ft-lbs of torque, it's just that the powerband is shifted lower with the curved-neck, KL01 cams....but alot of people say no that it doesn't make the same power. People say because the cam profile is different so it can't make the same amount of HP as the KL31's, some say because there's no PnP ECU, so you'll lose HP from the VRIS system being incorrect for the curved-neck intake manifold, some say they have domed DE pistons rather than the flat ZE.

There's several ways you can do it

1) Get a curved-neck and be happy with it.
2) Get a curved-neck and put in KL31 cams
3) Get a straight-neck and put your K8 IM on in the meantime until you source a curved-neck
4) Get a straight-neck and get throw a curved-neck on it on installation
5) Get a straight-neck and install it with the straight-neck IM

RX8SE3P · Post by **RX8SE3P** » January 30th, 2009, 2:19 pm

Custommx3 wrote:LMAO!! Please tell me you're joking.. because your absolutley WRONG.

Lets see.

DE VS ZE

ZE has BIGGER RUNNERS (unless your referring to SOME DE's that had ZE heads, and it was a Millenia DE/ZE Hybrid)
ZE has DIFFERENT VALVE RETAINERS
ZE has DIFFERENT HEADS (unless your referring to SOME DE's that had ZE heads, and it was a Millenia DE/ZE Hybrid)
ZE has DIFFERENT CAMS (unless your referring to SOME DE's that had ZE heads, and it was a Millenia DE/ZE Hybrid)
ZE has DIFFERENT PISTONS (higher compression)
ZE has NO EGR
ZE uses a different VAF
ZE uses a different ECU

A DE doesnt make the power of a ZE, period, unless it is modified.

Do you have a problem with reading properly?

Read my post carefully. The curved neck motor is more of a DE, it has 170HP. 125KW. I dunno why so many people call it a ZE, it's clearly far closer to being a DE.

Btw:

Different runners - not much difference
Different retainers - no difference at all - people perfer to use DE ones so you're off your tree on that comment
Different heads - not much difference unless you have the cams
Different cams - yes there's your main difference between the two!
Higher comp Pistons - maybe a little more power, not much
No EGR - Wtf, this makes pretty much no difference
Vaf and ECU - The ECU is programmed to work with that VAF. It could be programmed to work with the KL02 VAF too. ECU is just set up to take care of the other small differences. A little more power from it...

And I have a DE and a ZE both running. Do you?

I absolutely stand by my comment that a strong DE will be VERY close in power to a tired ZE.

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » January 30th, 2009, 2:39 pm

the kfze has 170hp (talking about the Lantis Type R Kfze), the curve neck klze has the same amount of HP that the straight neck does. I've dynoed a straight neck and curve neck the same day, at the same dyno, with both engines having similar setups, and the numbers were almost identical.

So please explain how a 170hp motor can have the exact same numbers as a 200hp one, with the same modifications... Its not possible and your information you are providing is wrong.

Post by **Custommx3** » January 30th, 2009, 2:58 pm

RX8SE3P wrote:
Do you have a problem with reading properly?

Read my post carefully. The curved neck motor is more of a DE, it has 170HP. 125KW. I dunno why so many people call it a ZE, it's clearly far closer to being a DE.

Btw:

Different runners - not much difference
Different retainers - no difference at all - people perfer to use DE ones so you're off your tree on that comment
Different heads - not much difference unless you have the cams
Different cams - yes there's your main difference between the two!
Higher comp Pistons - maybe a little more power, not much
No EGR - Wtf, this makes pretty much no difference
Vaf and ECU - The ECU is programmed to work with that VAF. It could be programmed to work with the KL02 VAF too. ECU is just set up to take care of the other small differences. A little more power from it...

And I have a DE and a ZE both running. Do you?

I absolutely stand by my comment that a strong DE will be VERY close in power to a tired ZE.

Actually I did read you correctly and was stating the DIFFERENCES between a DE vs ZE, if you would READ what I said.

Runners DO make a difference. Larger ports = more airflow = more power.
Retainers - they are different on a ZE, and yes Im aware the DE's are better thats why I used them in the ZE I BUILT.
Heads - Larger intake an exhaust ports = better/larger air flow = more power
Cams - a KLZE with w/ KL01 and a KL31 pretty much ar ethe same.
We took an MX-3 with a Straight neck and one with a curved neck. Put them on the track, guess who were neck and neck @ the finish?
The EGR takes away power from the engine - the KLZE has no egr = morepower.
The KLZE ECU is different, as its set up for the different VAF points and to take advanatge of the higher octane levels of the KLZE = more power. the KLZE requires a JE50 as opposed to the KL03 VAF - hence a difference.

Ive built KLZEs and KFZE's. Ive swapped MANY DE and ZE's in my day. Im aware of the differences between them.

A POS, 200K ZE will absolultley have less performance than a brand new DE. Its called loss of compression. Oh, and lets get the facts straight, it's not a DE, its called a KL.

MX-3.com

WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3

Re: WHICH KLZE IS BEST FOR MX3