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Internal engine interchange.
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Internal engine interchange.
I have a couple of nube questions. A 1.8L V6 and a 2.5L V6 are related, but how close are they?? How did Mazda come up with the 2.5L?? Is it the crankshaft (stroke) or was it a bore change?? Or both?? For example Could you put a 2.5L crank and rods into a 1.8L block?? Or is the block different?? I am going to buy a KLZE, but I just wondered since I have a worn-out 1.8L V6 sitting in my shop. ![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
You know, I've always wondered by you can bore them out considering their external dimensions are the same. You can use the crank, but it's expensive work for what I've been told (Mr.Spanky with his turbo stroked 1.8)IMACHU2 wrote:I have a couple of nube questions. A 1.8L V6 and a 2.5L V6 are related, but how close are they?? How did Mazda come up with the 2.5L?? Is it the crankshaft (stroke) or was it a bore change?? Or both?? For example Could you put a 2.5L crank and rods into a 1.8L block?? Or is the block different?? I am going to buy a KLZE, but I just wondered since I have a worn-out 1.8L V6 sitting in my shop. :D
Easiest thing to say, everything internal to the motor you can't change, everything external you can.
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
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2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
Googled this "Mazda K series bore and stroke" and immediately found this
http://www.tsentraal.ee/mx6/engine/SAE920677.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.tsentraal.ee/mx6/engine/SAE920677.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
Can't bore the K8 too much because you will break into the water jackets. Regardless of bore dimensions the thickness of the sleeve has to be pretty consistant to achieve the same cooling.
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Re: Internal engine interchange.
Too much difference. Bore and stroke are different. I'm sure there's a load of other internal differences too.
I suggest selling the K8 engine for whatever you can, or rebuilding it for fun...
I suggest selling the K8 engine for whatever you can, or rebuilding it for fun...
1995 Eunos 30x KLZE
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
Thanks guys, I was more curious then anything. So a K8 is like a 305 Chevy, yes it is a small block Chevy but, don't F'n bother
I tought maybe it was more like a 350 Chev or a 302 Ford. I could change the crank and make a 383 or a 347......or in this case turn a K8 (109.82 C.I.D) into a KL (152.53 C.I.D).
wytbishop: Great link thanks!
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wytbishop: Great link thanks!
Dominic Toretto's whip is a MaZda and his cell phone number starts in "(323)"
My work log http://mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=72471
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
isnt the 2.5 just a bored out k8?
Re: Internal engine interchange.
No, the K8 block internally is totally different to a klze blockklmx08 wrote:isnt the 2.5 just a bored out k8?
with cooling and oil passages abd returns in different places
hence why k8 head do not fit a klze block.
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
Factory Forged crank shaft. Aw-right! ![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
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Dominic Toretto's whip is a MaZda and his cell phone number starts in "(323)"
My work log http://mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=72471
![Image](http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s309/IMACHU2/MX%20326%20GS/006-31-2.jpg)
My work log http://mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=72471
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
Amen Brother.IMACHU2 wrote:Factory Forged crank shaft. Aw-right!
Re: Internal engine interchange.
wow i did not know that the are almost the same externally though right thats why it drops right in the mx engine bay i know the heads dont fit i ment genrally not exactly
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
will klde or klze cams fit in a k8? also will kl cams or k8 cams fit in a kf?
Re: Internal engine interchange.
i'm curious if the main journals on the crankshaft are the same size b/w the K* and KL crank?
BOH!
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Re: Internal engine interchange.
As far as I know all the cams interchange.
I don't know if the crank mains are the same diameter. I've never read anyone posting that information.
I don't know if the crank mains are the same diameter. I've never read anyone posting that information.
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Re: Internal engine interchange.
alright! found out some info
it looks like the mains are the same, 62mm
What I want to do now is stroke a K8 with a KL crank and rods (piston pins are 1mm smaller on K8 pistons)..why? I dont know... i think it would be interesting to have a near-square K-block... 75mm bore x 74.2mm stroke with 1.85rod ratio... it would displace 2.0L (square bore stroke unlike the KF) if it were NA and all left the same, I'd estimate it would make about 150hp 148ft/lbs... with all the K8 ancillary stock things left alone.
Then I'd like to take a K8 crank and aftermarket Honda rods (48mm) and put it in a KLZE with KLDE pistons... this yeilds a super oversquare 84.5mm bore x 69,6mm stroke with a high 2.01 rod ratio....it would displace 2.3L. The reduced stroke reduces the Compression Ratio lower than 9,2, probably about 8,8 if IIRC and even with stock DE pistons, would boost quite nicely..
The dynamics of this geometry would lend itself to a torque peak pushed up a few thousand RPM, combined with a higher rod ratio would increase combustion efficiency by prolonging piston dwell. I'd imagine for peak HP numbers, this engine would shine. How would it differ from a boosted KL? well the reduced stroke would reduce the torque peak figure from a crankthrow perspective, psi for psi, but carry the torque peak higher in the RPM band, allowing a higher HP number, psi fo psi over a KL. This is aside from the increased combustion efficiency and longer peak cylinder pressures acheived by the 2.01 rod ratio, which oculd very well compensate for the reduced stroke's peak torque #.
I dream about this stuff, I can hear these engines in my head! lol
it looks like the mains are the same, 62mm
What I want to do now is stroke a K8 with a KL crank and rods (piston pins are 1mm smaller on K8 pistons)..why? I dont know... i think it would be interesting to have a near-square K-block... 75mm bore x 74.2mm stroke with 1.85rod ratio... it would displace 2.0L (square bore stroke unlike the KF) if it were NA and all left the same, I'd estimate it would make about 150hp 148ft/lbs... with all the K8 ancillary stock things left alone.
Then I'd like to take a K8 crank and aftermarket Honda rods (48mm) and put it in a KLZE with KLDE pistons... this yeilds a super oversquare 84.5mm bore x 69,6mm stroke with a high 2.01 rod ratio....it would displace 2.3L. The reduced stroke reduces the Compression Ratio lower than 9,2, probably about 8,8 if IIRC and even with stock DE pistons, would boost quite nicely..
The dynamics of this geometry would lend itself to a torque peak pushed up a few thousand RPM, combined with a higher rod ratio would increase combustion efficiency by prolonging piston dwell. I'd imagine for peak HP numbers, this engine would shine. How would it differ from a boosted KL? well the reduced stroke would reduce the torque peak figure from a crankthrow perspective, psi for psi, but carry the torque peak higher in the RPM band, allowing a higher HP number, psi fo psi over a KL. This is aside from the increased combustion efficiency and longer peak cylinder pressures acheived by the 2.01 rod ratio, which oculd very well compensate for the reduced stroke's peak torque #.
I dream about this stuff, I can hear these engines in my head! lol
BOH!