Consider Winter Tires This Winter

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Nd4SpdSe
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Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Nd4SpdSe »

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With winter quickly coming, and picking up a new truck this year, I’ve been shopping around for winter tires. Also with a winter-related tragic loss that we experienced last winter, I’d figure I’d post up about my recommendations and experience with winter tires, and hopefully enlighten a few people.

A quick history lesson; back before I even got my G1, my parents picked up a 1990 Mazda 626 hatchback. I picked up my 1992 Mazda Mx-3 V6 in my second year of college and it came with set of winter tires. Up until that point I’ve never driven with winter tires. That following winter, they were put to good use, and I was quite pleased on how they worked. Come April, I thought winter was done; the snow was melted, so I changed back to my regular all-seasons. Ironically there was one last snow quick snow storm, and that’s where I noticed how much better they really were.

There are many reasons to get snow tires; the only real setback is the cost, having to buy a second set of tires and rims. They typically will also generate a bit more road noise and you’ll sacrifice a bit of performance.

Winter tires work better than all-seasons for many reasons, and even the cheapest winter tire will be a night-day difference to even a good set of all-season. The main difference is the compound of the rubber. The rubber is designed to stay soft in sub-freezing temperatures. All seasons do get quite hard when cold. This softer rubber is perfect for all winter road conditions, even on bare and wet pavement. There are more advanced winter tires with special compound to grip even better, specifically on ice, some even use volcanic sand or walnut shells, but it depends on what you want, but they’re significantly more expensive. Basic winter tires themselves are a huge difference compared to all-seasons, and from my experience, they’ve been nothing short of absolutely great. There’s also studded winter tires, but they’re not only illegal in Ontario, but they’re noisy and don’t do well on dry pavement. Even then, the best snow tires have performed better in some reviews I’ve read.

I don’t remember what tires were on the Mx-3, but they were awesome and had good sideways grip, unfortunately hindering my ability to do some nice handbrake slides. Coincidentally the 626 and the Escape both use Goodyear Nordic Winterac tires. They’ve both gotten me through the worst the last few winters could throw at us with ease; even had some fun playing in the snow. My dads TL uses Wanli Snowgrip tires, which I’m not a fan of. They’re better than the all-seasons, but nothing phenomenal in my opinion.

I’ve heard many people say: “Well I’ve always used all-seasons and have done just fine”. That, for the most part, is quite true. I’ve done a few winters and have managed just fine as well, however sometimes I did need a push. I remember once getting stuck just in front of the house driving me and my sister to work and we needed a push from the neighbors since the street wasn’t plowed yet. You can manage just fine, I have, and many people do. Take it easy on the gas pedal, leave extra space for braking, slowdown and don’t make sudden or abrupt maneuvers, but it’s the times where stuff happens, the stuff you don’t think about or expect is when snow tires are most useful, when you need a larger margin of error or that extra traction for braking, turning and even acceleration. I’ve had it happen once with the 626 (on all-seasons) where the car in front of me started to slide; I tapped my brakes, and the car spun a full 180. I was only doing about 20-30km/h, slowing for an intersection. But this became very clear after my sister’s accident. Her car hit a patch of slush, where she tried to recover, couldn’t and was at the mercy of physics. If she maybe had winter tires she would of maybe not initially lost control, or maybe she would have been able to recover or better her situation, but that we’ll never know. What happened happened and there’s nothing we can change. I by no means dwell about it, but I know first hand how well her car handled in the snow, I drove it just 5 days prior and even gave her my opinion, but she didn’t want winter tires, she was just anxious to sell the car when it got paid off.

I know some people wonder with advances systems like traction control, ABS and all-wheel-drive if it’s really necessary to get snow tires. Actually, those systems work immensely better with winter tires. All those systems require some sort of traction for it to work. ABS, or the “anti-lock brake system” for the most part, detects when a tires is sliding and automatically pulses the brakes to give you traction and control; but you’re tires need to grip to do that, right?

Traction control literally works the opposite of ABS, it uses ABS sensors to detect when a tire is spinning faster than the other(s) and use the brakes to slow it down transfer power to the one that has the more traction, but again, that other tire still needs traction for it to take advantage to that. My dad’s TL has traction control, but it can actually makes things frustrating a few times, when there was deep snow, typically where it snowed overnight and you don’t want to shovel the driveway, so you have to give it some gas to going and some momentum to get out, but the traction control would basically freak out and stop on the car on the spot. Like I said before, I’m not very impressed with the Wanli snows that the TL has, but I’ve seen my old boss’s BMW Z3 do the same thing.

Having a 4x4 or all-wheel drive helps, having extra tires to put power to the ground, but it’s even better when all 4 wheels have good traction. My parents were content with their AWD Escape with the all seasons that came with it, and did a winter that way with no problem. The next year he wanted to keep the stock aluminum rims in good shape and decided to get some steel rims and winter tires. He was quite impressed to say the least and had a bit of fun playing in some deep now. Since the 626 was retired last year, I used the Escape as my primary vehicle last winter during the times I was home and I had a blast with it, the worse the winter could dish out couldn’t stop me, and to say the least, it’s very nice to do Christmas shopping during a snowstorm.

There are other advanced systems that there’s no need to get into, but in the end, they all require traction to do their job.

One large misconception is that winter tires will wear out quickly on dry pavement, but that’s not the case; it’s the warm weather. Because the rubber on winter tires stay soft in extreme cold, they get softer as they warm up. A few weeks of warm spring weather won’t add significant wear, but it also depends on the mileage and your driving habits, as well as how warm it gets. The deeper the tread, the better they’ll work to dig into the snow. Also, you don't want wider tires, but narrower are actually what's recommended. It's not like driving on sand; you want it to get through the snow cover to the pavement and/or harder snow underneat. Unless your in deep snow, than wider is better, but in general, snow isn't going to be that deep. They'll also "plow" better through the snow, having less surface to push/resistance against it.

For the Xterra, I’m being overly picky on the tires. Not to say that I like tire shopping in general, but it’s actually quite frustrating, even for me, but I know what I’m planning to do with the truck this winter, that I’ll be doing a lot of driving and even have a little fun, so I also know exactly what I want in a tire. I wanted something good for snow, deep snow and ice with some aggressive tread on the edge to work against sideways movement/sliding. I didn’t care about road noise or comfort, or now well they perform on dry pavement; it’s a truck not a race car, but even then it’s hard to get a good all-around tire, there are always some sacrifices. I found that pretty much all information about snow tires is just the same information paraphrased differently, specifying nothing really. I found some review sites, most talked about road comfort and noise, which for me was not something I cared about, or some comparison sites compared tires that were not even in the same class (ie: all-season vs. snow vs. studded snow). My best sources were online reviews, ratings and comparisons posted on sites like tirerack.com. In the end, and it took me about a week and a half, but I choose the Brigdestone DM-Z3’s. Coincidentally I’ve been told they were rated #1 out of 80 in a recent article in “Protégé-Vous”, but I couldn’t find the magazine or access the article to read their reason and comparisons, but I was glad I made a good choice.

In the end, for the most part, sticking with a known brand of tire for snow tire, even if it’s the cheapest one they have, can turn a stressful driving experience into one that isn’t, or in my case, a pleasant one. I know myself, I enjoy driving, and especially the challenge of getting through bad weather, which most people usually make snow storms a bigger deal than it is. After driving with winter tires for the last 6 years, it’s something that I have and will highly recommend, and I really don’t know anyone who has used winter tires that really don’t swear by them themselves. I can give you numbers and stats, but even for me, it means nothing. It’s a difference you just can’t grasp with stats; you have to experience it to actually see and feel the difference. It’s far more than a peace of mind, it’s something you’ll notice the first time your tires hit the snow, and that you’ll be ready, in case the unexpected, happens.

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‘Nd4SpdSe’
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by neli_nael »

i couldnt even write that much for class....jeez you have too much time
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Volones »

I totally agree with your basic premise!

I grew up in central Nebraska where the snowdrifts are much deeper than the actual snowfall. I never thought I needed snow tires until my first winter (in Colorado) with my MX-3. I was OK with starting in 2nd gear, and beginning braking much sooner, but the first morning I drove in really cold & packed snow, I tapped the brake pedal and totally lost my ability to control the car. Luckily there weren't any other cars on the road, and I got off the brakes before I got sideways, but it made quite an impression to say the least.

I also read many reviews, and purchased a set of Hankook iPike-409 tires, and can't even calculate the improvement they made. I felt that I could drive on snow/ice as if it were a dry road instead. I highly recommend them!

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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by rekognize »

I'm going to buy a new set this winter... trying out the Gislaved Nordfrost 5 tires, heard some very good reviews...
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by colinf004 »

great experiences, I too am going to buy winter tires.. I will probably go with the bridgestone series not sure which ones though, still researching on that.. thatnks for the winter tire rubber report. I never knew the rubber was softer on winter tires. VERY informative thank-you
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Ryan »

Thats why is nice to grow up in the north.

I learned to play in the snow in my brothers Chev truck at about age ten. Seven 8 month winters later, I'm pretty good with it.

Not saying I'm invincible and accidents don't happen, but its been proven that people who grow up being able to expeiment on ice and snow, grow up to be better drivers. Makes sense, right? Gas and brake control, what everything feels like, how to apply countersteer and when to push which pedals....

I actually forced my gf to learn, semi accidentally. I popped her ebrake for a split seccond on a deserted street when we were going about 30(km/h). She completely oversteered both ways and never let go of the gas. Her civic mashed the ditch and we ran to get my buddy's Jeep. Everyone, car included, was ok. We plan on doing some learning in parking lots this winter. She doesn't deal with stressful situations very well either, it was quite the learning experince in itself.

My mother has been upside down in the ditch for a few hours in her Pathfinder.
Sister has placed many vehicles in the ditch
People always fall off our driveway. (It's funny: look down the driveway and see the rear end of a pickup way in the air)
I've gotten stuck on my driveway. Been close to ditches but I have so far avoided them. For my ammount time on the road, thats not saying much yet, though :)

I have winters for my MX. On steelies, and balanced, waiting for me :). The first flakes of the season fell this afternoon, could barely see them. Kinda sucks.
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Daninski »

Great write up. Best car ever for smashing through snow is the Chevette. Those little cars will blast through anything na dwith rear wheel drive doing donuts is a breeze.
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Nd4SpdSe »

Ryan wrote:Thats why is nice to grow up in the north.

I learned to play in the snow in my brothers Chev truck at about age ten. Seven 8 month winters later, I'm pretty good with it.

Not saying I'm invincible and accidents don't happen, but its been proven that people who grow up being able to expeiment on ice and snow, grow up to be better drivers. Makes sense, right? Gas and brake control, what everything feels like, how to apply countersteer and when to push which pedals....
Actually that's one thing I forgot to mention, but it was long enough, i tried shortening it, lol, didn't want to add more content. Anyway, about 2-3 years ago there was a news report about snow driving and they said staticticly those who played in the snow, doing donuts in the parking lot and such are much better at winter driving than those who don't....I liked that stat :) I actually never had any experience with driving in the snow until I got my beginners, but my experience in racing games helped me develop good instincts and quick reflexes for when I did :)
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Ryan »

Nd4SpdSe wrote:
I actually never had any experience with driving in the snow until I got my beginners, but my experience in racing games helped me develop good instincts and quick reflexes for when I did :)
I also believe that racing games do help in the theory aspect. I learned how to drive stick from a game. I also learned the concepts of redline, countersteer, brake tests, handbrakes vs footbrakes, burnouts, how to do 360's and 180's (reverse and foreward) But its not the same as actually doing it, which is where you really learn. I suggest Driver 2. The first level forces you to understand concepts like that. I also suggest finding a good empty church parking lot :)

There's one local here, and me and buddies sometimes do laps around it. Sliding almost 60% of the time. Trees and concrete barriers, its pretty thrilling. Just stay very far apart and don't show off. If you keep your head, you will stay in control.
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by mitmaks »

got me a truck with 4WD. let it snow!
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Nd4SpdSe »

neli_nael wrote:i couldnt even write that much for class....jeez you have too much time
Neither could I, but I've been on the road for several weeks working, so I have plenty of time, especially on my 4hr flights, but I've also had some personal motivation to give me insentive to write that up

I know it's a bit long, but there's alot of stuff that I wanted to touch on. Hopefully despite it's length it was a good read.
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by JayJ »

Daninski wrote:Great write up. Best car ever for smashing through snow is the Chevette. Those little cars will blast through anything na dwith rear wheel drive doing donuts is a breeze.

Bahahahhaa OH so True!

My parents tell me all the time that (we used to live northern NB) there were once a bunch of people pulled off to the side of a hil (all on the way up) because they couldn't make it. All with season tires

Along came an old vehicle with an elderly man in it (I always picture a priest for some reason!! lol) who stopped at every vehicle. He didn't have chains but only winter tires

I don't know if it's true -- Buuut, I still get winter tires ;)
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Mooneggs »

Nd4SpdSe wrote:
Ryan wrote:its been proven that people who grow up being able to expeiment on ice and snow, grow up to be better drivers. Makes sense, right? Gas and brake control, what everything feels like, how to apply countersteer and when to push which pedals....
Anyway, about 2-3 years ago there was a news report about snow driving and they said staticticly those who played in the snow, doing donuts in the parking lot and such are much better at winter driving than those who don't....I liked that stat :) I actually never had any experience with driving in the snow until I got my beginners, but my experience in racing games helped me develop good instincts and quick reflexes for when I did :)
I agree with the snow driving thing... anytime that we ever got ice or snow on the ground I would take my car out and "practice"...

I agree with the video games statement too... My first time I autocrossed I bet 80% of my skill had come from playing racing games because I had a good idea what would happen when I drove it a certain way :)
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Daninski »

I bought Hercules Ultra AW tires and they work great. I'd be inclined to try their winter tires. Hercules tires are inexpensive and have realy good write ups from everything I've seen so far.
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Re: Consider Winter Tires This Winter

Post by Nd4SpdSe »

Well I found out about 2 weeks ago that I couldn't get what I wanted, The DM-Z2's were discontinued, and the Z3's that replace the Z2's aren't available in any size that would fit my truck with the 15" rims I got, nor my stock 17's. I decided to give the Yokohama Geolander I/T's a try. They look good and a new tire for this winter season actually, so there's no reviews on them yet, but they look really good, so we'll see. They actually arrived at my friends shop today, but I'm not home for another week and a half, so apparently they're doing a good job at decorating his showroom lol.

Oh, and I hear you guys in Ontario has some really nice weather today, while me being in Calgary, brushed off about 3 inches of snow off my rental car this morning. :lol:
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
2001 Nissan Frontier SE - The Frontrailer : Expedition/Off-Road Trailer Project
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