Car not even trying to start!

[lokirx706]

Hey everyone, I am new around here. I have been searching around the forum for the last few days and have solved alot of my problems. I have just recently purchased a 1994 GS that is really cherry, has been sitting due to running rough.

I did the HEI mod, and I have an external coil as well. I have and can verify that I have VERY strong spark. I know i am getting fuel, I know my pump is operating properly, I have my back seat ripped out and have tested it throughly. I have no oil in my coolant or vice versa. I was driving it around today trying to figure out as to why it was running like crap.

I was about to go pick up a can of seafoam when the car flat out died, and has since refused to start. I cant figure out what the deal is, timing is on the mark that was set before it died... Also before anyone chimes in, I have brand new wires, new platinum plugs and a new rotor button, oh and a new cap.

Now, I have pulled codes from the ECU I have codes 08 and 10. IAT sensor and VAF.... Now I dont know about the VAF but Toyota AFM's (they do the same job as a MAF essentially) trigger the fuel pump when you crank the engine over. My fuel pump kicks on and off exactly when it should, so my question is, could it be throwing a code because when I came and looked at the car the previous owners were trying to crank it without the VAF plugged in? I have cleared the codes, but I dont know if the ECU can re-record them without starting and driving the car, which I cannot do.

I can also verify that the VAF is plugged in, it is on securely and that connection cant get any tighter. I am going to the junkyard tomorrow and I am going to look for a Probe GT or Mx-6 VAF since I am fairly certain that they dont have ANY Mx-3's there. If the VAF isnt bad I am going to go through the injectors, which I can only assume are also the same on the Mx-6 and Probe.




SORRY! I didnt mean to type quite so much, but I want to cover everything so you guys know my situation. I am a newbie I have never owned an Mx-3 before, can you tell?

I guess I just want to know if the VAF triggers fuel the pump, and if so could it still trigger the pump and cause a no start situation? Or am I probably looking at injectors?

Thanks! Chris

[JM1EC-V6]

You need a JE50 VAF (1992-96 Mx-3 V6 and 1992-95 929 V6 3.0) to solve the problem, and injectors are not the same on Probe GT/Mx-6.

Probe GT/MX6: 220cc
Mx-3 V6: 180cc

[shameem]

Did you disable the internal ignitor module in the disty?

[lokirx706]

Did you disable the internal ignitor module in the disty?

Yep, I disabled the factory coil and the ignitor. I did that after I mounted the new ignitor and coil, but before I tryed to start it. I really dont have the money to drop on a brand new VAF and 929's and Mx-3's are slim picking around here...

[lokirx706]

WOW! I cannot believe my luck!! I went to my favorite local junkyard (I know everyone that works there) And they had just gotten in two Mx-3's! One is an RS but the other is a complete GS. I go there on a regular basis for random parts for my 1981 Rx-7 so I am in the Mazda section quite regularly, which is why I thought they wouldnt have any Mx-3's...

I picked up the VAF and I hope its a good one, I also grabbed the master cylinder and grapped the distributor and wires, just because I like having alot of spare stuff lying around...

Grand total, $26! I love that junkyard!

I will update soon, I would have grabbed the injectors, but I forgot to bring the right sockets to get the fuel rails out...

[lokirx706]

I tested my old VAF and there was no continuity between E2 and THA, I tested the VAF I bought and it is well within spec. However I looked up the firing order and were the wires go on the cap. I found that someone had there K8 wired differently than mine, I am following what the cap says it has numbers on each terminal. It reads,

<(Front of car | Back of car>

5 4 6 (Top three)
1 2 3 (Bottom Three)

I purchased it from advanced and it matches what the old cap says, no this is not the cylinder firing order, it is simply where the plugs go on the cap.

Now the way this person has it wired on the cap,

4 5 3 (Top three)
6 1 2 (Bottom three)

Is there a reason I should be concerned? The K8 in the junkyard has a different distributor than what I have, however it is an earlier GS than mine. Its cap also reads differently, but either way, the car was running with this distributor and wiring. It has spark, the fuel pump operates, I am guessing injectors?

[Tunes67]

http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=62510" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is the correct firing order.. and its different than what the Shop Manuals say to use. Runs like a champ

Tunes67

[lokirx706]

Thats the thread I dug that pic out of, it doesnt make any sense though because my cap has the numbers molded into it, and the car ran with the wires like that...

My distributor doesnt look like that either, and the cap I ordered from advanced fits the distributor I have but not the one I got from the salvage yard (one from the salvage yard is identical to the pic in that thread) Also I cant take the internal coil off of my distributor, its completely different from whats in the DIY HEI mod site.

I think I found the problem though, I must have forgot to put the washer under the steel pieces that are a part of the cam position sensor. I have re-installed it but have found a bunch of cut wires and disconnected sensors, they must have been like that from the previous owner because I havent touched half of the stuff thats disconnected, also theres alot of disconnected vacuum, cruise control, and the EGR... So looks like I have some detective work to do...

[comish71]

you need to know which year the donor car was for the distributor. i know that the distys on 94-96 are different. the cap firing order is definately different. also the spacing of the plugs on the cap is different (althouth the spacing externally doesn't matter) but internally the order is different.

[lokirx706]

Well the car wont start with the firing order in that thread, mine is definately different. I got it started last night, but it ran like crap and it wouldnt idle... And I had it running for about two minutes, I tried pulling trouble codes and there are none. Now it wont start at all, I dont get it at all. I beefed up my ground wire to the ignitor, and beefed up the wire going between the solid orange wire and the G terminal. I think I might have had it wired wrong initially and I could have possibly fried the new ignitor. It has no continuity between any of the terminals, so I am exchanging it now.

Also, the fuel pump will normally operate while cranking the car and stay on for maybe 2-3 seconds after I stop cranking. Now it only operates while cranking and immediately stops when the key returns to the ON position. Is this something I should be concerned about? Might I have a problem in the ECU and/or main/fuel pump relay?

[lokirx706]

Well I had the ignitor and the coil tested, I have quintuple checked the wiring. Everything is correct as far as the ignition, can someone with a working HEI mod politely post how much continuity I should expect between the rotor and distributor cap. I feel like it has to be spark related now, I am getting spark but I dont think its a strong spark. I sprayed some starting fluid into the TB and quickly buttoned up the intake piping and it tried to start but thats about the best result I had...

[lokirx706]

Well the car is trying to start, I dont know if I have a screwy ECU or what. Since I am not getting many ideas I am going to replace that, I know the VAF is good and I am getting new injectors while I am at it.

Also, I have alot of oil on my plugs, I have compression that is within specs. And I tested my PCV and it seems to be operating properly, any ideas on where its coming from? Valve stem seals maybe?

[Aston Wards]

the oil is probably just the valve cover gasket leaking, pretty common problem, not a big deal to fix (except for the rear one lol!)



as for the rest, my suggestion would be to try a disty that you KNOW works, otherwise you could well end up chasing you tail for fricken ages.

[lokirx706]

I am doing the HEI mod, the dizzy shouldnt operate, with the exception of the cam position sensor. I am getting spark now for sure, I dont know what the deal is, the car is trying to start its so close its driving me insane.

Thats why I figured Ill get a good ECU and a good set of injectors, my plugs being wet with oil is not the valve cover gasket either, the bottom of the plugs are wet the part inside of the combustion chamber. They smell like oil, with a hint of gas.

I wired the HEI mod on my 89 Corolla SR5 and it is running off of it. I have had the HEI mod on my 81 Rx7 for years now (thank you rx7club.com!) I know my wiring is correct, so its not the spark it must not be getting enough fuel.

[cando123]

So what happend? did you get it started? My gas car has the same with the wet plugs smellng of oil. Although it does start, but runs like crap.