cjthor wrote:Magiccowinuse, when you get your hinges let me know what your shock looks like.
Will do. keep us posted on your findings.
My findings so far....
1. This is not a "bolt on" kit.
2. The kit does not go a full 90 degrees with supplied strut.
3. You will have to remove the fender to install.
4. Go to a junkyard and cut a wiring harness out of a door to lengthen yours...its easier than using the "kit" Xtreme sends you. For a wiring kit i recieved a roll of yellow wire and no connectors.
I would like to modify my #1 statement..
1. This IS a bolt on kit if you modify the frame and fender.
Jarid Perry
94 mx3 Turrrbooooo (not even close to stock) 302WHP
71 Chevy C20 (tow rig!!)
77 Jeep CJ5 (no way its stock)
06 MINI Cooper S JCW GP (few goodies) 210WHP
2008 MINI Cooper Clubman S
As requested by Kyle at Xtreme doors...My Definition of "bolt on"
1. Remove part A
2. Install part B
No modification of vehicle for a bolt on part as it is in my definition. Strut tower braces, clear lenses, underdrive pulleys..are bolt on.
Having said this I know kyle is very upset with me for posting my issues with the kit. The issues I have found are minor, things such as grinding metal away from the inner frame, pounding in the inner frame, cutting the fender, not having the strut keep up the door, and now not having a 90 degree kit. I know kyle is working on the degree issue and I apologize if I made it sound like you needed to be a rocket scientist to install the kit. This is a great kit and will work well on an MX3 as soon as these issues are addressed.
Jarid Perry
94 mx3 Turrrbooooo (not even close to stock) 302WHP
71 Chevy C20 (tow rig!!)
77 Jeep CJ5 (no way its stock)
06 MINI Cooper S JCW GP (few goodies) 210WHP
2008 MINI Cooper Clubman S
Firstly I would like it known that I'm not upset about you posting the issues you have encountered but rather the way you have conveyed the issues to the others.
Cutting the fender was necessary and that was stated, so I can not see how this is considered a issue, as with any kit out on the market, trimming the fender is absolutely necessary.
We appreciate you saying that this is a great kit. Flattening the frame is necessary, and as soon as we knew this was necessary we posted and let everyone know. So this again should have come as no shock.
I'm looking into the shock mounting location issue, and will let you know. While it may not be considered "bolt on" in comparison to a strut tower brace, or clear lenses, it does bolt on, and functions and moves in a unique way and the modifications to the frame and fender are necessary in order to allow it to do so.
So again I would like to point out that in no way shape or form am I upset regarding him posting the issues, as was that not the purpose of the "real world" testing? I'm just upset over the way that it was conveyed.
is it possible to get a stronger shock rather than one that has the minimal amount of strength? i just don't want to have to replace it every year or two like the hatch shocks that always die out. removing the fender is a process i only want to go through once. speaking of which, could you supply specs and model # of the shock so we can buy replacements?
also, could you please address my earlier post about you making a quick video to help support your claims for your product? it would be really appreciated.
bgracing wrote:Hey,
we will be installing a 90 Degree on one side and a Non-90 Degree on the other, and taking lots of pics and videos of them in action with the fenders on.
Kyle Wesley
Xtreme-Doors
Did this ever take place? Looking thu the 12 pages of info here I dont think we ever saw a completed 90 degree kit.
Jarid Perry
94 mx3 Turrrbooooo (not even close to stock) 302WHP
71 Chevy C20 (tow rig!!)
77 Jeep CJ5 (no way its stock)
06 MINI Cooper S JCW GP (few goodies) 210WHP
2008 MINI Cooper Clubman S
Actually if you look at the posts, the video I posted of the kit in action with the fender on and off is the 90 degree kit with the non-90 shock locations. So yes you have seen a completed 90 Degree kit in action, however we did not have the shock mounting locations in the correct position and I stated that it was the 90 degree kit without the mounting locations in the correct spot. The non 90 degree kit is quite similar, as it features the same bolt locations but the backing plate and arm feature a different design.
I do not have anymore 90 Degree kits welded up, and I'm awaiting the arrival of some shocks to our location. Our welder should be back by Thursday, at which point I will have another kit welded up and a ton of pics and videos will be shot this way.
I expect that once video and pictures are posted of the 90 Degree kit payments will follow as this is the only issue that is needed to be fixed. Furthermore, we are adding another shock to the 90 Degree kits so each hinge will feature dual shocks to help with the lifting.
Actually if you look at the posts, the video I posted of the kit in action with the fender on and off is the 90 degree kit with the non-90 shock locations. So yes you have seen a completed 90 Degree kit in action, however we did not have the shock mounting locations in the correct position and I stated that it was the 90 degree kit without the mounting locations in the correct spot. The non 90 degree kit is quite similar, as it features the same bolt locations but the backing plate and arm feature a different design.
I do not have anymore 90 Degree kits welded up, and I'm awaiting the arrival of some shocks to our location. Our welder should be back by Thursday, at which point I will have another kit welded up and a ton of pics and videos will be shot this way.
I expect that once video and pictures are posted of the 90 Degree kit payments will follow as this is the only issue that is needed to be fixed. Furthermore, we are adding another shock to the 90 Degree kits so each hinge will feature dual shocks to help with the lifting.
Thanks,
Kyle Wesley
Xtreme-Doors
So should I re drill my kit? or redrill it for another shock?
Jarid Perry
94 mx3 Turrrbooooo (not even close to stock) 302WHP
71 Chevy C20 (tow rig!!)
77 Jeep CJ5 (no way its stock)
06 MINI Cooper S JCW GP (few goodies) 210WHP
2008 MINI Cooper Clubman S
Hi,
I'm writing here for the first time, but was watching the thread all the time.
@ bgracing I tried to call you put when I try I get a massage that the number is not in service I got your e-mail but the e-mails that I sent came all back.
elk-o wrote:Hi,
I'm writing here for the first time, but was watching the thread all the time.
@ cjthor How satisfied are you till now?
If I had to rate my personal satisfaction from 1-10 I would probably say a 7.5 out of 10. This is mainly due to initial communication issues, not receiving a tracking number for the first kit that was shipped, not receiving instructions with my kit, and a few other issues that I dont need to mention. If I had to rate the specific kit I got i would give it an 8 out of 10 since I am having issues with the struts as well as the kit not going a full 90 degrees.
Jarid Perry
94 mx3 Turrrbooooo (not even close to stock) 302WHP
71 Chevy C20 (tow rig!!)
77 Jeep CJ5 (no way its stock)
06 MINI Cooper S JCW GP (few goodies) 210WHP
2008 MINI Cooper Clubman S
We have been trying to contact you for the past 5 days. After numerous delays which have span over the last couple of months through dealing with you and Chris, you told me that the NEW 90 Degree Direct Bolt-On "Application Specific" (Based on The LSD Vertical Door Kit) Kit would be ready for shipment last Friday.
As sponsorship partners, we have already begun marketing your product and preparing some our company show cars and a few of our sponsored vehicles for your kits. Yet despite our efforts, you have been doing very poorly in keeping us up to date.
It's very important that we be kept in the loop. You have our company name and show car, as well as one of our sponsored vehicles, on your website and we are concerned that if you continue your current business practices and lack of customer service, it may have a negative affect on both of our companies.
I apologize if I seem blunt, I am not angry but frustrated. It's unfortunate that I was forced to post this message on this forum but it is the only way I could get through to you. You don't answer your phone, the number on your website is disconnected. You don't respond to emails and you dont reply to your msn.
Your company made us numerous promises about the quality of your product, but we have yet to receive it. We've already invested time and money in the interest of our sponsorship deal and it would be a shame to waste it.
Please contact us asap.
Thank You
Firas
Raz Racing Autosport
Sales and Marketing Department
Firstly you claim that the limiter is the shock as seen in that video posted by us? Well please remember that we stated that, that was a 90 Degree kit, utilizing a non-90 degree shock mounting locations.
1.) Please, PLEASE explain to me how this kit is not a bolt on kit?? We have been working with this kit for quite sometime now, and have installed it on our MX-3 on numerous occassions without any issues. This kit bolts on using the stock bolt locations, and because you may have had some issues installing your kit, does not give you the right to claim that this is not a bolt on application. How is it held on? Which holes does it bolt to? If you answer "Stock Locations" then guess what, its a bolt on. Yes some areas need to be flattened on the frame, there is absolutely no way around this, sure you could put spacers under the frame mounts, but then you lose your horizontal travel which is ABSOLUTELY necessary for these doors to go vertical.
2.) Your shock mounting locations may have been off causing the kit to not travel 90 degrees, this will be checked and reported back on.
3.) Fender removal is absolutely not necessary, while it is highly recommended, it is not necessary. In order to install without removing the fender, you will open the door horizontally, and while someone is holding the door, remove the stock hinges and cut and label the wiring.
4.) OK so I'm going to explain how to extend the wiring. Use the supplied roll, cut the wiring to the length needed, and solder into place. Using wire connectors can cause the wiring to impeed the function of the kit, hence why none were supplied. However for future kits if you would like we can cut all the wiring to length.
I would really appreciate it if you would start coming to me first so I can answer these questions without you coming on here and posting all of this and then having me straighten out the facts. It is amazing how all this comes up on the message board, but when speaking thru MSN you mention NONE and I mean NONE of these things to me. You did also claim that it looked as if it did not come down at all when left open during the night? So tell me what has happened to the shock that would have caused it to stay up all night, but now will not stay up?
Kyle,
I went to Jarid's house yesterday and looked at the hinge he has set-up. I am impressed with the engineering of your kit. You have put some decent time and money into the design. I think there may be some further tuning of the hinges necessary before they can fulfill their promised motion.
I noticed that with the door fully down, the strut is still approximately 1 cm still extended. I also noticed that the lower strut mount bolt is approx 10mm. Were the lower strut mount bolt 10 mm higher, then the strut would have another 10 mm reach at to height. Further, with a couple of straight edges, I estimated what the angle difference would be were the top of the strut to be able to extend another cm. It looks to be around 15 degrees. This is important because that seems to be very close to the amount of degree opening that the hinge is missing. Also, there seemed to be an adjustment the could be made at the lower hinge holes, but It looks like that could be at most a 2 degree adjustment. However, were a person to adjust the lower hinge mount holes backward to it's greatest extent, then the lower stop would need to be modified, as it seems to match well with the lower hinge mount holes all the way forward.
Perhaps, were the lower strut mount hole welded shut and then a new hole drilled and topped above it, then the door could get to 90 degrees.
The other impediment that seems to be an obstacle still is that when getting up in the range of 70-75 degrees, it gets very tight -- a little movement outward, the hinge metal hits the fender; and a little movement inward, the door panel hits the top of the fender (I don't remember if it was the fender or the column). It seems like it will get even tighter (that is, start rubbing or binding) it the hinge could go all the way vertical. That is, it seems like even if the strut could allow the door to go 90 degreesm that the hinge body or the door panel would bind. I don't see where a little bit of tweaking here could alleviate the situation other than cutting part of the door panel off.
Personally, I would appreciate it if you could please mount your 90 degree kit on you mx-3, then install the fender and the door panel, then open to 90 degrees and take some measurements. If yours does not have any problems, I'd like to see photos of your set-up and your "tuning" instructions to get the door past this tightness.
I have some more obseravtions, but I have to leave for class now, I'll write more later.
Kyle PLEASE send me the instructions for this kit. When i talked you you last night you said i would have it this morning. I have Wednesday off and would love to finish my installation.....or should I wait for a revised kit? Please let me know what i need to do.
Jarid Perry
94 mx3 Turrrbooooo (not even close to stock) 302WHP
71 Chevy C20 (tow rig!!)
77 Jeep CJ5 (no way its stock)
06 MINI Cooper S JCW GP (few goodies) 210WHP
2008 MINI Cooper Clubman S
More impressions from what I saw on Jared's car... However, I want to specify that I am not being critical of Kyle and brother's company or the hinges. I am giving my opinion as to what I saw and some suggestions for improvements.
I noted where some of the structure had to be pounded or ground down for the hinge to be mounted. I also noted the amount of the cutting of metal on the inside of the trailing fender edge. Both of these cuts/hammering/grinding tasks seem requisite for hinge to be installed. I think I remember that Kyle said something of the sort. I suppose you could do the grinding with a small grinder such as a Dremel or a thin sir powered grinder -- but, it would be cramped and awkward. You definately could not do the hammering with the fender on (one or the other -- hammer or grind, both not needed). I would suggest that purchasers of the kit plan on removing the fender in order to install the hinge.
While on the topic of cutting the fender to make room for the kit, this is a comment, not about the kit, but about it's installation -- just for installer's consideration. A fender support has to be removed -- which is reasonable, being that we want the hinge to be able to move past the support. However, in doing so, the fender is less stabilized. In addition, the flange that extends inward (from top to bottom) from the trailing edge of the fender needs portions of it to be cut away. This will leave the trailing edge of the fender less substantial and more prone to distortion of shape/curve. When installing the hinge, take this into consideration: it may be smarter to bend the flange flush with the fender or bend some steel to the fender profile and weld it, flat to the outermost portions of the flange inorder to give the fender shape-support. Perhaps one might want to install a new fender support out of reach of the hinge too.
Now, on to the question of wobbliness. I noted how carefully the door was handled in the videos. This is an important consideration. It's not that the hinge is bad, it is that when opening or closing the door, that you would have to control where the door goes. The door needs to be open a certain amount of distance to clear the frame at first. But as the door goes higher, the relative location of the hinge to the fender gets closer and closer until at one point, if you don't control the door and hinge, the hinge will rub the fender. This is because of the required distance open the door to clear the frame, and then the way the fender gets narrower at the top. It seems that this could be overcome by three modifications to the hinge, below. However, I first want to make sure that people understand that I am not being critical of the design of the first revision of this hinge, but I am just discussing possible engineer concepts of designing a revision of the hinge.
1. The hinge is compound, having an outward motion and an upward motion. It seems to me that if the pivot axis of the upward hinge were changed a few degrees such that the center of the outer fact of the hinge were higher than the center of the innner face of the hinge, then the direction of the up portion of the hing would be up and in instead of just up.
2. A "track" could be fashioned to limit the in-out motion of the hinge while lifting, and there by guide the hinge along where it should be to avoid rubbing the fender binding the door panel against the chasis structure.
3. Lastly, there are is a set-screw which limits the door's outward movement at the top of the opening range, and a couple of screws with cap nuts which limit the inward motion at the top. This makes the in-out motion of the hinge rather stable at the top position, and should prevent the door from swinging onto the fender or A support when fully opened. If the set screw were made to engage earlier, and then the portion of the hinge where the set-screw meets it's limitation were shaped for the set-screw traveling along the stop, then the stop would be variable during travel. This would be a nice feature. Also, making the screw the next size bigger would be nice.
Now, on to another stability issue. The hinge is designed to use the stock hinge locations. However, this is somewhat unstable since the hinge extends forward, and the stock mount locations weren't designed for stability in that direction. I would like to see another mount location on the fixed portion of the hinge -- the portion that does not raise up -- but further forward, to give the hing added stability. This might even be able to be done by an installer were he to drill and tap a hole in the hinge and in the crumple structure, then thread a double ended studd with jam nuts on each side. But I'd rather see the fixed portion of the hinge extended forward a bit and the mount made forward of the pivot point. Anyone who does this to their hinge should be aware that getting into a forward accident could danage the hinges since it would be mounded in a crumple zone forward of the A pillar. Of course, this area only crumples under extreme forces.
Lastly, my final observation so far, regards extending the wires. My suggestion would be that instead of including a spool of one color, would be to include various color wires and a corrugated loom to protect the wires. As far as speakers go, one red and one black wire should work. There may be many different colors of wires for the driver's door since on doors that have window control on it, you will need wires for the passenger side window in addition to the driver's window, automatic locks, and mirror control. My suggestion would be that you obtain the spools various colors, which match to OEM wire colors for speakers, miror control, power lock control and power window control. Then, cut the wires to length, such as 3 or 4 foot, include the cut lengths of the correct colors. On this subject, it would probably be best to include enough wire so that the soldered connections would be inside the chasis and inside the door -- no collections in the unprotected space between the door and chasis.
Now, friends at Xtreme-Door, you may wonder why I am giving you all these suggestions. Well, that is because I get the feeling that you are trying to build a business of quality hinges, and you are looking toward further success down the road. Attention to details (such as clear instructions in book form and in video form, color coded wires, looms, heat-shrink tubing, stability issues, guiding issues) makes a difference between a hinge and a professional kit. I think you have the makings of a great company with future success and a reputation for high quality. But you are not there yet, you have some more work to do, and some details to attend to. We MX-3ers are more than willing to help by giving input. And it can be a two way street, where you help us and we help you. I should think that if you take the input given by several people here with the respect in which it is given, that you will improve your product and make a reputable name for youselves.
I got your e-mail but the e-mails that I sent came all back.