15's or 12's...the endless debate.

ruthless_mx3 · Post by **ruthless_mx3** » November 10th, 2006, 3:37 pm

no matter what anyone says there will always be an argument over what size is best. It really is to-each-his-own. There are sooo many myths and basically opinions about the subject. Some info comes from very knowledgable experienced sources and other bits come from the guy thats experimented with one or 2 stereos in his life.
In no way will adding more power increase SQL unless you are underpowering. My previous info was misleading, I didn't mean it would increase SQL but 15s, and any other speaker for that matter, sound like crap underpowered. There is no reason a 15 can't "keep up" with the other speakers unless as I mentioned b4, its underpowered, or a piece of crap. If all you have heard is "slow" 15s then I'm sorry but you have missed out on a large number of perfectly able 15s. Either that or there was a perfectly good 15 in a crappy box and install. 15s don't need 5-10 cu ft box to sound good. Some are designed for insanly huge boxes, like the Kicker that was used for example previously, and some for small 1-2 cu ft boxes. Ported boxes are usually always larger than a sealed box. Ported boxes are tuned to a certain frequency, when the frequency drops below the tuned frequency the cone will begin to lose control making it easier to bottom out also leading to distortion.
Competition SQL rarely use subs at all if anything 8s or 10s. Subs don't typically stage too well.
I also agree with simplicity, 1 sub is enough.
I'm sure there will be a line behind me awaiting to disagree with what I have said but like I said we will never completly agree, so lets all agree to disagree. Stereo's always turn out to be a battle. We get to prefer a certain brand or size of stereo just like we have different cars. its the what's better battle.

Alright, I'm ready....
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hit me!!!

SuperK · Post by **SuperK** » November 10th, 2006, 10:40 pm

I completely disagree.

+1 for first disagree post on page ftw!

Choosing stereos is not like cars. Visually appealing automobiles is subjective to the driver and in no way is linked to a "perfect design" that one vehicle is closer to. Completely subjective to the driver's personal visual preference.

However, I believe that audio equipment has a different role, in not that the quality, or audibly appealing sound systems are subjective, but have one goal in mind: Perfect frequency replication.
OK, so no speakers can replicate a frequency completely perfectly, but I believe that the best quality speaker is not one that's loud or bass driven but a speaker that can replicate as close as possible to the intended frequency as possible with the best clarity possible.
The debate over different size subs is not "which ones you prefer" but which speakers can best replicate their intended frequency/range with the most optimum clarity, the debate being that the larger the speaker (to an extent) the optimal frequency range it can replicate accurately shifts to a different range.. In that sense it's insightful to know what speaker sizes can replicate what frequencies the most accurate.

*edit* I s

ruthless_mx3 · Post by **ruthless_mx3** » November 13th, 2006, 3:45 am

ruthless_mx3 · Post by **ruthless_mx3** » November 13th, 2006, 3:55 am

SuperK wrote:

However, I believe that audio equipment has a different role, in not that the quality, or audibly appealing sound systems are subjective, but have one goal in mind: Perfect frequency replication.
OK, so no speakers can replicate a frequency completely perfectly, but I believe that the best quality speaker is not one that's loud or bass driven but a speaker that can replicate as close as possible to the intended frequency as possible with the best clarity possible.
The debate over different size subs is not "which ones you prefer" but which speakers can best replicate their intended frequency/range with the most optimum clarity, the debate being that the larger the speaker (to an extent) the optimal frequency range it can replicate accurately shifts to a different range.. In that sense it's insightful to know what speaker sizes can replicate what frequencies the most accurate.

totally agree, except the part about "The debate over different size subs is not 'which ones you prefer' but". If you have the best speaker ever but you don't like how it sounds (even if it is true SQ) then why would you want it. If the less quality speaker sounds better to you then screw statistics. Just like a car, you pick the one YOU like not what joe shmoe likes or says is better.

SuperK · Post by **SuperK** » November 15th, 2006, 9:03 pm

haha, you're right, but I was considering that we all preferred the most pure replication over "thump thump" Ghettoblasters, thats all

Jovian2k · Post by **Jovian2k** » December 12th, 2006, 1:52 am

Every person has their own opinion, I like my 2 12inch Rockford subs but my opinion of them is slowly changing. Instead of 2 subs in a Heavy box powered by a 500watt Jensen Amp, I am considering.... well nothing. I'm thinking of loosing that excess, unecessary 50-60 or so lbs to help out my lil SOHC. It could use the weight reduction, but at the same time I crank my music up and enjoy the hard bass and it makes me change my mind

Has anyone else sacrificed their system for some weight reduction gain?

Vanished · Post by **Vanished** » December 12th, 2006, 1:07 pm

You relize, one of the most efficiant ways of loosing weight might not be simply getting rid of something, but rebuilding it.

Try making a sealed and smaller enclosure out of fiberglass. You'll save a good 20 pounds, and you'll have more space. I made one to fit my spare tire well.

Jovian2k · Post by **Jovian2k** » December 12th, 2006, 2:18 pm

I always wanted to do a custom enclosure, I guess now that I have aftermarket wheels I don't really need my spare tire bc of the size difference... Vanished do you have any plans, dimensions, pictures of the setup you did?

chew* · Post by chew* » December 12th, 2006, 9:42 pm

From professional experience with the MX-3 and car audio, A spare tire well mounted sub sounds lack luster regardless of the box design or material.

The best way to get clean and more bang for your buck ( 1 sub sounding like a lot more and alot bigger subs.) is to build a box for 1 10" or one 12" built tight to the seat and not protruding over the edge of the spare tire well etc not over the tire well at all. Also removing the spare tire helps out alot. The speaker needs to be rear fired as well as the ports if it's ported.

How do I know all this, Because I have tested it with a SPL meter and an RTA, With multiple boxes, box placement, speaker direction and port direction.

IIRC we used a JL 12w3v3 which is far from anything I would use in the SPL lanes and hit 143 ish in a box tuned for sound quality with a kicker kx 600.1 running @ 4 ohms ( etc only pushing 300 of the 600 watts as its 600 watt rating is @ 2 ohms )