AXLES - which is best?

nightnic · Post by **nightnic** » August 28th, 2006, 9:14 am

Guys, which aftermarket or OEM replacement CV joints and Axles you use? What's the price and are you satisfied?

By this moment I've encountered the following axles:

http://www.raxles.com $119.95 per side. I'm not sure at the moment whether this includes CV joints only or complete axles assembly.

http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=52632 $355 MX-3.com group buy from CV Tech, complete axles assembly.

http://www.driveshaftshop.com/item135640.ctlg $399.99 Level 1 axles assembly for MX-6/Probe. Not sure if they fit MX-3.

http://www.driveshaftshop.com/item135655.ctlg $699.00 Level 2 axles assembly for MX-3.

http://rep.racepages.com/parts/racepage ... ype=Manual $102.41 per side, Race Pages. Seems like stock replacement.

http://www.protechtransmissions.com quote has not been received yet.

What do you think on those?

LooseChangeRacing · August 28th, 2006, 11:42 am

raxles and racepage or whatever are stock replacement, you don't want that...

mx6 probe i'm almost definite will not fit

that leaves CV tech and driveshaft

$425-$450USD shipped to your door from CV TECH

$700+shipping from driveshaft

your choice

nightnic · Post by **nightnic** » August 28th, 2006, 11:51 am

Shipped to my door I beleive it'd be something more like $550, I beleive

I'm in Russia.
But thanks. Could you also give me an email contact for CV Tech since it's not very handy for me to call overseas, please?

verzutiko · Post by **verzutiko** » August 28th, 2006, 12:30 pm

I'm also considering new axles. It was organized a GB not so long ago an then they saved 50$ or something like that. If we get more people in on this, we could save some money.

nightnic · Post by **nightnic** » August 28th, 2006, 12:35 pm

Yeah, there are two of us, all we need is three more

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » August 29th, 2006, 3:25 pm

Which axles you get depends on your setup. Depends on the weak point of your setup. I use an organic faced clutch specificly so it takes the drivetrain stress. I'd rather burn through a clutch faster than replace axles, or worse a tranny .... which would leave me disabled in the road. Tires are another good weak link to prevent mechanical issues, but harder tire compound usually means bad cornering too.

If you're putting in a ceramic or ferramic clutch, you'll want to look at Stage 3 axles.

nightnic · Post by **nightnic** » August 29th, 2006, 6:03 pm

Well, thats a good one. Thanks!

Steeb · Post by **Steeb** » August 29th, 2006, 9:09 pm

thats right, excessive clutch causes excessive wear

JWMotorsports · Post by **JWMotorsports** » August 29th, 2006, 10:38 pm

Tisk...tisk...tisk....fellas.....

Wheel hop is what breaks most all those components. I'd suggest putting money into SRD A-arm and tranny crossmember bushings, & stiffer motor mounts (ie Mazdaspeed, and or filled stock mounts). Also change your tranny fluid to Lucas 80w90 with 1 bottle of Lucas Trans Fix.

I've been running some NASTY torque through my car as a daily driver on two different clutch setups, both very harsh because nothing else will hold the torque. The Lucas tranny fluid combo is what is holding my tranny together as we've broken a Pro-LX gear box with a lil Mitsu 16g turbo on other fluids. The Lucas combo we've tried in both my car and my friends which had the Mitsu 16g with out any misshaps in either car since then.

Whats harsh you say?

-26psi on BIG GT30R (supports 500HP)
-22lb Pro-LX flywheel
-ACT 2100lb Pressure Plate
-Clutchnet 3-Puck Hybrid Metallic Sprug Hub Clutch Disc (there highest holding capacity disc)

All this on a STOCK Pro-LX trans and axles for over 11,000 miles

Wheel Hop is BAAAAD!!!

P.S.

I'm not knocking upgrading your axles...it is worth the extra life you'll get out of them plus the extra safety margin! I'm just making sure you all are not overlooking the root cause of most driveline failures.

Also harsh clutchs DEFINATELY eat flywheels...I'm talking grooves the piss out of them in no time. To combat this use an aftermarket flywheel with a replacable face...ie SPEC, Fidanza, Unorthodox, Clutchnet, Clutch Masters, etc... My next flywheel will be the Clutchnet 12lb as the SPEC 9lb sucks for daily driving (you have to really slip it in first to get going) and the stock Pro-LX is 22lb which is to heavy, not I have a really laggy turbo and REALLY tall gears (tires are 245/50-R16...bout 3" larger diameter than stock). The replaceable faces are around $50-$80 USD to replace and are replacable nearly infinately where as the OEM flywheel can only be surfaced a few times before needing to be replaced.

nightnic · Post by **nightnic** » August 30th, 2006, 3:36 am

As I thought before, wheel hop is primarily fixed by suspension components, stiffer springs that is. There are lots of cars tuned above 500HP and I honestly havent seen one hopping on regular basis when starting. Sure thing if you have your wheels hop every time there is little sense in upgrading axles. But when you do upgrade them you merely provide for more torque capacity between gearbox and wheels, thus shifting your weakest point to other drivetrain components, as lakersfan1 said. At which point it becomes a question of what part you dont mind replacing more often.

MazdaManiacMx3 · Post by **MazdaManiacMx3** » August 31st, 2006, 2:32 am

JWMotorsports wrote:Tisk...tisk...tisk....fellas.....

Wheel hop is what breaks most all those components. I'd suggest putting money into SRD A-arm and tranny crossmember bushings, & stiffer motor mounts (ie Mazdaspeed, and or filled stock mounts). Also change your tranny fluid to Lucas 80w90 with 1 bottle of Lucas Trans Fix.

I've heard from many people That Lucas products are the devil , The quiet everything dowm , but they induce air into the fluid not allowing the metal to transfer heat properly ..

LooseChangeRacing · Post by **LooseChangeRacing** » August 31st, 2006, 4:51 am

a1cvtech@videotron.ca

thats cv tech email, oh and the guy has a special shipping service...even though your overseas he can get it to you VERY cheap...one problem with being overseas...if you want it cheap you gotta let it go by boat...if you take it by air your gonna pay between 125-150 in shipping

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » August 31st, 2006, 3:08 pm

MazdaManiacMx3 wrote:
JWMotorsports wrote:Tisk...tisk...tisk....fellas.....

Wheel hop is what breaks most all those components. I'd suggest putting money into SRD A-arm and tranny crossmember bushings, & stiffer motor mounts (ie Mazdaspeed, and or filled stock mounts). Also change your tranny fluid to Lucas 80w90 with 1 bottle of Lucas Trans Fix.

I've heard from many people That Lucas products are the devil , The quiet everything dowm , but they induce air into the fluid not allowing the metal to transfer heat properly ..

It's a catch 22. Lucas will help in like 1/4 mile racers where you want to reduce shock to the gears, but the car doesn't see lots of road driving. For a regular use, though, the Lucas gets airated and looses its lubrication properties for the bearings.

JWMotorsports · Post by **JWMotorsports** » September 2nd, 2006, 11:26 am

I've been using Lucas in my car for over 11,000 miles in both the engine and the transmission. I've seen no such evidence of airation or my car would have craped the trans and spun bearings a LONG time ago.

My car is daily driven and I get on it all the time running 24-26psi of boost. Driving to work alone is 25miles in one direction. My car is also putting down a LOT of torque. Its making upwards of 400 lb/ft of torque @ 5500rpms in 3rd gear.

When I finally broke a small B6 rod in the test engine (after 10,000+miles) I dry started the engine to get the car up the drive way running on 3cylinders so I had to rev the piss out of it to get it up my driveway (to steep for 2 people to push a car up). I didn't want to do it because I knew I'd allready blew all the oil out when I broke the rod ( it broke just past TDC on the power stroke saving the valves & head). With no oil I was sure it would scratch up my Web Cams and cam journals but I was pissed and had no choice at the time. I started it up and drove it up beside the garage and parked it till I could finish a engine swap in a civic that was in the garage. Two days later I went out, drifted my car down the driveway, started it up, reved the piss out of it again to get it up the drive way and then into the garage (I did not add oil either before doing this again). I figured for sure that I'd screwed the head, cams, crank, etc... After tearing down the motor there isn't a scratch on any thing except the holes the broken rod punched in the block and the giant hole it left in the front of the oil pan as it exited the engine

. Even the crank shaft journal that the broken rod was on didn't even have a scratch on it! The cams, cylinder head, and lifters had not a scratch on them either and are on my fully built motor that I've been running for a 1,000+miles now. Both motors spent 90% of there WOT abuse at 24-26psi of boost (Garrett GT3076R (AKA GT3037, or big GT30R)).

As for the people that are claiming Lucas is the devil I'm curious as to how their claiming the Lucas is causing the airation and engine damage they are claiming. It may be just their engine design or crankcase vent design. My car for example does NOT have ANY of the crankcase vents hooked to the OEM engine connections. The PCV valve is designed to keep oil out of the intake manifold (not boost out of the crankcase in most cases). At high pressures I'd say the PCV valves (maybe not all of them) do leak boost into the crankcase as they are not designed to seal against high pressures trying to enter the crankcase. All it would take is a oil film left at the sealing seat of the PCV valve for big boost to get by it. They aren't machined to precise dimensions and there for will leak at least some. If it was redesigned to use a precision machined seat, and or an o-ring to seal like a blow off valve then it wouldn't be a problem (look at a PCV valve on a DSM OEM turbo car, they are metal on the out side and probably feature the design I spoke off internally). The other vent normally goes to the intake pipe in front of the compressor inlet of the turbo which wouldn't cause possitive crankpressure unless there was a pressure surge at the compressor wheel or like the bypass blow off valve used in the 323 GTX's where the blow off could pressurize the crankcase briefly. An advantage to the 323 GTX oil pans are they have baffle like fins cast into the oil pan which helps control the oil's return speed to the sump. This gives time for the air to escape the oil but only works if your crankcase vent system is working properly. Notice on the Mazda's that have the main cap gurdles that the oil pan is smooth with no baffle fins like the 323 GTX. That main cap gurle is actually the oil baffle for getting the air out of the oil before it returns to the sump. Another design that affects oil airation damage is the depth of the pans sump and oil pump pick up postion in that sump. To deep and you can suck debis off the bottom. To shallow and you get airated oil, or no oil, or airate the oil as you pick it up. Monitoring your oil level is crutial in performance engines as you want that pan to stay full to prevent the above mentioned.

One case study I've seen that "proved" Lucas airates the oil is full of CRAP. The test had no ventalation or system desgined to pull airation out. This goes to show that a lot of people can start false roomers by accident. In a properly designed automotive engine the oil is run through a baffle system of some sort to get the airation out of the oil and then the crankcase vents let the air escape to prevent it from reairating the oil. The "purified" (unairated oil) is then pumped via vac. pressure through the oil pump and pressurised to be forced through the oil gallies. Notice that the pressurized oil doesn't lubricated multiple items before running back to the baffles and pan. It lubricates only one component and does not drip to others in a siries for lubrication purposes. This is because the oil becomes airated after the first function as it falls off or is flung off in most cases to return to the baffles and pan. Also not that the oil sits in the head for a while as it runs back to the pan. While it is "sitting" there air is escaping from the oil as well. Thats while the guy performing the test saw airation with Lucas. Another variable he didn't have is heat which makes a HUGE differance. The hotter the oil gets (to a point) the less air it will hold or trap inside itself as its flung. This is because oil thins out as it gets hotter allowing the air to escape easier unless you reach its boiling point which will froth the top layer of oil causing massive airation at that area...thats partly why oil sump depth and pick up depth are crusial.

If you all have more data on this I'd love to see it. Also as far as the transmission...it also has a vent system and I've had better results with the Lucas Trans fluid than the Red Line products.