Engine Swaps Besides the Conventional

illapino · Post by **illapino** » July 24th, 2006, 4:18 pm

Besides the KLZE, BP, KLDE, and K-series engines altogether, what would be some compatiblistic engines to stick into an MX-3 that are FWD and put out a minimum of 250hp?

I'm sorry I'm being repetitive about this fetish, but I've taken my car to a few performance technicians in my city and they never elaborate on the topic. I'm constantly asking the questions and they don't seem to input much or offer suggestions, thousands of dollars or not. "What about an RX-7 engine". They reply "not enough airflow with it being sideways." The end.

Please talk to me.
I can't seem to find MX-3s on the web or in this forum that have undergone a massive surgical swap. Enough about the ZE. there must be something else out there

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » July 24th, 2006, 4:50 pm

You should be able to get 250 crank horses out of a KJ engine. However, read the other posts about the KJ engine in the MX3 to see what concerns there are on that swap, as noone has completed it before.

ariesdude · Post by **ariesdude** » July 24th, 2006, 4:52 pm

http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.ph ... t=fe3+swap

Vanished · Post by **Vanished** » July 24th, 2006, 5:49 pm

mm..yeah the KJ is defantly something that has always been possible but not probable.

See I beleive that there are a couple reasons why the family engines are conventional. By family i mean direct or near direct swap...K and B series.
Now, if there were other drop in engines, it's most likely that it'd have been discovered by now, because these cars are almost 20 years old, and then engines that swap in are no newer than a decade.

Also, when you want and engine thats minumum 250 hp that ISN't a direct swap, peopel just see it as pointless. Why? Well, a couple reasons....first off, a ze running of 7psi of boost can acoplish this (or abit more on DE), and a turbo set up is much easier than "massive surgery", AND cheaper. Also, more efficiant. And who doesn't love a nice turbo?

If you want the brag about sucessfully completely the most improbably and difficult engine swap, then that woudl be the soul reason why anyone woudl do this. Other wise, the power and efficiancy can be bought by other, cheaper, EASIer means, and more efficiant.

illapino, are you just curiouse on what massive surgies have been done? or do you plan on doing one yourself? What do you have againts a ZE? just out of curiousity...i say, if you have the time money and knowlege, do something different, then by all means, go for it! but there are easier ways to do what you want to accomplish..

illapino · Post by **illapino** » July 24th, 2006, 6:57 pm

i just wanted to see what other options are out there other than matching the speed of Si's...
Civics around here are easily making 220hp so i wanted to see what other Precidians have done to exceed the 200hp KLZE. I really haven't seen any MX-3s with massive speeds. I really haven't seen any MX-3s that have done something besides the KLZE (sorry, but i'm purposefully ommitting BPs and DEs). Why 250? I just chose it since the RX-7 is capable of that number. Any faster obviously would probably be as expensive as putting a 2001 Nissan GT-R engine into a 1967 Ford Mustang, but cost or no cost, i just wanted to really expose the other swaps. Even a Lexus engine tickles me pink, given that Lexuses themselves all lack that sporty look on the outside to begin with. Can't you just picture it? At at least 250hp, a Precidia could dominate those little competition races held in the city. 200hp is just matching the power of the average import put on the track, so why not put in an extra two grand for the next level. Well, for starters, how about we just list FWD engines that pack alot of punch. Coz it seems most of them are RWD...

and sorry, rule of thumb: i will never put an engine from a domestic into an import...
and yes, i would finance a swap that overpowers the KLZE one...

ps. i hate Probes

2RotorsNaDream · Post by **2RotorsNaDream** » July 24th, 2006, 9:48 pm

Think about how many FWD motors make 200hp N/A...pretty much none. You can just turbo the ZE and call it a wrap and make more power than all FWD stock cars on the road N/A or turbo. 200hp bone stock N/A is pretty damn good even for todays standards, the Civic Si just now finally got that HP number so I wouldn't complain too much about a 10+ year old engine making that.

PS- My friend had a turbo ZE PROBE and stomped people out all over the races where I live, and I live in NYC where there are a whole lot of racers and a whole lot of racing spots.

illapino · Post by **illapino** » July 25th, 2006, 1:41 am

N/A = Not Applicable, Not Available, or No Add-ons ?

JWMX3 · Post by **JWMX3** » July 25th, 2006, 2:18 am

illapino wrote:N/A = Not Applicable, Not Available, or No Add-ons ?

None of the Above

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » July 25th, 2006, 2:39 am

LOL@ JWMX3!

Naturally Aspirated

All the conventional and possible swaps have been done. The only probably swap that has yet to be attempted and completed is the KJ, but that engine is designed for efficency and not performance. I've seen a rotary FWD 323, and there's that recent FE3 swap as well. There was a guy making a V8 RWD Mx-3, but I haven't seen any updates on that in over a year, and even then, the only part left is the outter body, the frame and chassis was all custom made tube chassis, so there's probably less than 5% of the original Mx-3 remaining.

The problem is that are you really willing to spend THOUSANDS of dollars on parts and custom fabrication and many hours of labor just to get a measly 250hp and just to be different, but that's your call, and I'd definitely give ya props for pulling it off. As well, you may hate Probes, although for what reason I don't know considering it's just a mx-6 with a tad different skin, but check out ProbeTalk for many turbo 2.5L V6's with 300+hp. BPT's are very comon and easilly make 250hp at the wheels, and upto 500hp. And only one (known) person had completed the AWD swap as well.

Compatible engines are those that have already been done. If you want to be different and perform a "massive surgical swap", the hard part is to validate spending that kind of money, I guarantee it won't be cheap, even if you do your own labor. That's the reason those mechanics can't elaborate, cause your asking them for information on stuff that's never been done, so they would have no idea, they can only guess. People who have been different did the research, the trial-and-error process and the work themselves.

illapino wrote:200hp is just matching the power of the average import put on the track, so why not put in an extra two grand for the next level.

You'll barely get a turbo setup in there for an extra $2000. The "next level" in the form of a non-mx3-compatible motor upgrade will cost many more times that $2000

kiwi_MX3 · Post by **kiwi_MX3** » July 25th, 2006, 2:41 am

RPM 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500 8000
TQ 201 168 167 173 183 207 213 216 217 214
HP 134 128 143 165 191 236 264 288 310 326
INP 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
EXP .1 .1 .1 .2 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7
VE 96.6 83.0 84.0 87.5 92.6 104.2 108.1 110.8 112.3 112.3
CFM 183 168 192 222 258 317 356 393 427 455

Have a close read, thats a 2.7KLZE N/A with basicly cam's and custom
intake, and extractors with a very mild port pulling 326hp@flywheel
and a very flat torque curve thats not to vilolent on the gearbox.

The mx3 is a very heavy car, i know ive gutted one out, the amount of
fat you can remove is not funny! hp sell's cars torque win's races.

Vanished · Post by **Vanished** » July 25th, 2006, 5:00 am

ne34fyofrsp3d34 you hit the head on the nail. You've said it all.

Illapino..You haven't seen mx-3's with massive speed? Well you just haven't been around long enough to know about babyblue running a bar of boost, Dave Lauzier's viper killer, or the many other near 300hp turboed ZE's that are popping up here and there...

illapino, i'm gonna be honest. your looking for something your not gonna find. Just let it go. The mony you spend on putting in a 300hp engine can be spend on making a ZE 500hp...your options are K, KL, and KF.. If you want to spend the money for that extra 50hp, go for it, but it's not gonna be worth it in the end.

LooseChangeRacing · Post by **LooseChangeRacing** » July 25th, 2006, 8:41 am

Recently, the car has been redesigned for 2006 (along with all other Civic trims), representing significant changes since the previous generation. The new car comes with a 2.0 litre i-VTEC engine that now produces an impressive 197 horsepower and 139 foot-pounds of torque, while also including a 6-speed transmission with limited slip differential, among other performance add-ons.

*eh cough eh*

Ok, you've fallen into the H.O.N.D.A zone.....

Let me make some jokes first...

"Yeah dude I got the gsr motor, i'm so fast 195-200 hp at the crank"

B18C5
VTEC
Found in:
1997-2001 Integra Type-R
Displacement: 1797 cm3
Compression: 11:1
Power: 195 hp (145 kW) @ 8000 rpm & 130 ft·lbf (176 N·m) @ 7500 rpm
Transmission: S80
[edit]
B18C6
VTEC
Found in:
1998-2001 Honda Integra Type Rx
Power: 200 hp (141 kW), 136 ft·lbf
[edit]
B18C7
VTEC
Found in:
1996- Honda Integra Type R (Australia)
Power: 200 hp (141 kW), 136 ft·lbf

Ok, you've now seen the numbers, your talking 220hp compared to 200 in the klze...WAIT your totally forgetting something...

KLZE - 200hp at the crank (DING DING DING 165(underrated) TORQUE)

Now go back and look at those numbers again....even for your brand new civic si

Now do the comparision....do you realize that those cars with 220hp will lose to you because you have 25 (IF NOT MORE) torque....

Financial standpoint -

$2000-$3000 for the honda monda (which is slower but much better for turbo)
$2000 for a decent turbo setup for that honda

Right there all we did was turbo and engine, there is much more cost to that....fuel management and everything else involved, but anyway

You've spent roughly $4500 to make yourself a honda with I would say roughly 300 and probably about 250torque

MX-3

$1000 for the engine
$2000 custom turbo setup
$1500 some custom internals
$4500 total

You now have a ze that can be pushed beyond that 6psi range upwards into the 12psi range...

Now your about 365 and about ust shy of 300 torque....

Now remember, theres many more costs added onto both projects....and yes the ze might take a bit more knowledge and help, but in the end, were talking considerable differences.....

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » July 25th, 2006, 9:25 am

Vanished wrote:ne34fyofrsp3d34

Juans_93_MX3 · Post by **Juans_93_MX3** » July 25th, 2006, 2:13 pm

The thing about those Honda engines is that it makes 195 hp @ 8000 rpm & 130ft trq @ 7500 rpm.
Isnt it better to have more low-end torque/hp then to have it at such high RPMs when it comes to 1/4mile racing and AutoX?

On a KLZE, by about 5200RPMs, you are aolready making peak power

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » July 25th, 2006, 2:21 pm

Juans_93_MX3 wrote: On a KLZE, by about 5200RPMs, you are aolready making peak power

Peak HP doesn't come until come like 6,000 - 6,500 RPM depending on cams, ECU, and exhaust system.