Building regular 4 cyl instead of BPT....

KJ · Post by KJ » May 23rd, 2006, 7:03 am

I know that this has been done before and probably talked about alot in this forum but i can't get my search to work. So i was wondering what that pros and cons would be to building this engine versus say the BPT. I know there is alot of hp/TQ issues that make it not worth doing but any engine with the right amount of money and time can be what you want it to be i guess. Also does anyone know the max hp drained out of a regular 4 cyl. dohc? Just wondering because i am just thinking about going with this motor instead of the JDM versions. Let me know what you think guys.

KJ

Limegreen mx-3 · Post by **Limegreen mx-3** » May 23rd, 2006, 9:53 am

check out the forced induction forum there is a N/A BP 1.8 dohc turbocharged (its not a BPT) bored to a 2.0 block. fully built engine pushing 475WHP@18psi over 350lb torque. u can get more power out of a regular engine verse a boosted engine due to its higher compession but u'll need proper engine mangement.

Cy · Post by Cy » May 23rd, 2006, 7:30 pm

Limegreen mx-3 wrote:check out the forced induction forum there is a N/A BP 1.8 dohc turbocharged (its not a BPT) bored to a 2.0 block. fully built engine pushing 475WHP@18psi over 350lb torque. u can get more power out of a regular engine verse a boosted engine due to its higher compession but u'll need proper engine mangement.

WTF!?!?!?!?!?!!? That is a screwed up post dude....Posting with a hangover is not good for other people's IQ's....

He's talking about building up the stock 1.6L DOHC in the 93+ non GS's.

As a reference the B6 motor will accept alot of parts from the Miata 1.6L motor so if you can get a 1.6L stroker kit for the 1.6L miata it's a good bet it will fit into the B6DE/ZE.. Mind your probably gonna have to mixmatch parts..
On the port and polish, the head is quite thick and usually take well to a P&P and valve stepping job...Again with the head; high lift cams and a adjustable cam gears along with titanium valves & retainers with heavy duty miata valve springs..

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Problem is unless your fairly experienced and have all the tools or a well discounted shop... all the work your going to get done to the motor is going to run you like $5000+ and you're only going to have gained like 50 HP MAX...

Doing all that work in conjunction with a turbo setup along with lowercompression pistons would be Prime... 8.5:1 over 9:1 and like 15psi T3/T4 Boost in a 1.8 or maybe 2.0L motor...

But these aren't honda motors... So pulling more then 200whp will cost you more money then building an indestructable turbo motor...

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On the other hand a bpt is already a 1.8L Miata motor which can be bored and stroked to 2.0+ Liters with a low compression and have the heads built with all the same things you'd do to that 1.6L and get ALOT more power...

If you build the 1.6L build it tobe Quick.. if you go the turbo route build for responsivness not power...

A motor that responds to your every movement under the dash is more valuable then a 500HP monster that doesn't growl until 4000rpm...

But I'm just regurgitating what I've read here and what I already knew on the subject...

Limegreen mx-3 · Post by **Limegreen mx-3** » May 23rd, 2006, 9:15 pm

Cy wrote:WTF!?!?!?!?!?!!? That is a screwed up post dude....Posting with a hangover is not good for other people's IQ's....

getting on my nerves is one thing but talking out of ur a$$ is another not good for poeple IQ!!! where u holding my hand when i was what u say hangover i guess so since u know that i was for a fact. i was not (hangover) and pointing him to what other poeple are doing.

Cy wrote:He's talking about building up the stock 1.6L DOHC in the 93+ non GS's.

i know what he meant i just refurring to to a N/A BP and turbo it instead of going BPT like every one else. but u didn't see it that way.

Cy wrote:turbo setup along with lowercompression pistons would be Prime...

i guess u didn't get my point would make more power given same motor same setup proper mangement different compession 8.5:1 & 9:1 lets say 15psi cause if u say the 8.5:1 u must be hangover. the honda JDM guys even the KLZE guys are turbocharging their hi compession JDM motors years ago people said there crazy technology getting better DUDE. i know of a local guy where i live running with a H22 9.0:1 compression ratio he went all out make 710whp@30psi.

Cy wrote:So pulling more then 200whp will cost you more money then building an indestructable turbo motor...

there is a 1.6 maita where i live that has 330+whp on stock block stock internals. same engine in the 94+4cly MX-3. ur sort or right about that but the right setup u don't need to build ur motor. unless ur looking for massive power past 400hp or depending on engine.

Cy wrote:If you build the 1.6L build it tobe Quick.. if you go the turbo route build for responsivness not power...

A motor that responds to your every movement under the dash is more valuable then a 500HP monster that doesn't growl until 4000rpm...

thats statment is opioion there are people out there that are happy with what they got there are other that want more power. that depends on a person choice.

Cy · Post by Cy » May 23rd, 2006, 9:56 pm

Bravo

KJ · Post by KJ » May 23rd, 2006, 10:03 pm

So now i am kind of confused i want to be street legal but i want to pull as much w/hp out of her as i can. Could you guys point me in the right direction here i have the engine apart and on an engine stand waiting on really someone to help me along with it. If BPT is the way to go then i will buy one but if i can build the stock motor to have all the w/hp that i need to dominate the local track where i live then i will be more than happy to do that. Anyone have a specific guide that i can follow in order to do this? I mean like a parts list and things to do to the engine.

KJ

Limegreen mx-3 · Post by **Limegreen mx-3** » May 23rd, 2006, 10:43 pm

Cy wrote:Bravo

u started not me

Cy · Post by Cy » May 23rd, 2006, 10:54 pm

As far as i'm concerned, "There's no replacement for displacement."

1.8L bored and stroked to 2.1ish L... then do what you will... atleast with that block you'll have the option todo more then N/A later..

Limegreen mx-3 · Post by **Limegreen mx-3** » May 23rd, 2006, 11:20 pm

am talking about turbo chargeing a N/A BP am not talking about going all motor on a BP

they cant do what honda/toyota can do in N/A form.

JWMotorsports · Post by **JWMotorsports** » May 23rd, 2006, 11:25 pm

Yes the 1.6's are good platforms to build on...check mine out...400WHP @ 24-26psi on a BIG GT30R, stock bottom end, and it took it for over 10,000 miles of daily driving and floging! The #1 rod finally failed from fatigue and went sailing through the block on a 1-2 shift last Friday morning.

Hondas are JUNK!!! I've worked on them and confirm they SUCK!!! Dollar for dollar I'll walk all over ANY honda with the Mazda B6 or BP series engine!!!! The only upside to Hondas...they do have stronger transmissions.

WingleBeast · Post by **WingleBeast** » May 23rd, 2006, 11:30 pm

displacement is nice, but at far as the BP swap, i dont see the sense in spending that money for just an extra .2 L my opinion, is you are either better doing a 2.0 conversion or just putting that money into a nice (not stock 323) turbo setup that can run around 12 psi.

so your "no replacement for displacement" is kinda void here since its just such a small comparison. the difference between a bp and b6 is maybe 20 whp if your lucky. not only that but the power potential is just 11%. if you spend 5 grand on either engine your only going to get 11 percent more power out of the bp. thats 250 whp compared to 277whp, i rather spend the 800 getting a nice new bp twards a turbo for the 1.6

the only real advantages of a 1.8l BP is the availability of parts, ease of swap, and the ability to bore it out, which is why its so popular

obviously this is only my opinion, i know tons of people are happy with their BP swap and have gotten tons of HP out of them, and in no way am i telling them they are wrong. but for me im gonna see what i can do with the 1.6 just as KJ wants to

so please, dont try to bash his (and my) decision because its not what you did, we have our reasons. most importantly dont bash a longtime member who is trying to give helpful advice because you dont agree, you just end up looking like an idiot for trying to call people out, just let people say what they want.

KJ - im with ya on the 1.6L buildup, PM me if you got any specific questions

WingleBeast · Post by **WingleBeast** » May 23rd, 2006, 11:32 pm

hey JW, what kind of rod is ( or was) it? i hope it was stock cause i dont want my nice (aka expensive) aftermarket ones snapping on me when i boost!

JWMotorsports · Post by **JWMotorsports** » May 23rd, 2006, 11:40 pm

It was the small B6 series rods. Not even the 323 GTX or GTR rods which are a LOT beefier. It appears the rod bolt broke first. I was expecting it to happen much sooner than it did! As long as you use 200,000psi or stronger rod bolts you should never have any problems with after market forged rods. The Pauter Machine Rod Bolts are around 200,000psi tensil strength and ARP offers upgrade bolts good for 220,000+psi. Those strengths are for EACH bolt.

Cy · Post by Cy » May 23rd, 2006, 11:58 pm

I'm still running the 1.6L DOHC.. i too plan to low-budget turbo it aswell..My plan only happens to also include a 2L BP with a turbo kit being built on the side..

I Bash noone's opinion or plans.. our cars are rare in the grand skeme and getting moreso.. getting some good power outa them is the key to us keeping them in good condition (noone takes care of a crappy 100hp car)..

HE asked what could be done to a b6 to get power outa it.. in the first 3 posts we discussed this...His alternative to getting more power was getting the BP or BPT.. which is a slightly more potentious motor only in that the parts are there and tested vs the b6 which has more limited aftermarket internals availible..like you said..

WingleBeast · Post by **WingleBeast** » May 23rd, 2006, 11:59 pm

thank god. my goal right now is 250 wHP, but im sure it will change to 350, then 450.. and so on untill i either die or blow the car up