need to see if this is ZE

hgallegos915 · Post by **hgallegos915** » September 11th, 2005, 1:40 am

I tought zes only came with automatic transmission.... ??? you meantin it was on a 5spd

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » September 11th, 2005, 9:32 am

Selecta wrote:I am back from DR.

Well, that was a quick no-notice little escape. Hope you brought back some good cigars and some Santo Domingo coffee?? Hmmmmmm good stogey and an expresso, don't I feel international ... LOL. Welcome back big guy.

Selecta · Post by **Selecta** » September 11th, 2005, 9:36 am

Ya tell me about it...I go into work and they say...your leaving later today...crazy s---...and of course I bring back Stogies and Coffee along with some Memories hehehehehehe

Well I have been trying to follow up with Ian as much as I can..even called him from there to see what was going on...I check the motor this morning and the head codes on mine are KL31-101

But I told Ian I would go back with him and try and get it sorted out...apparently Jay does not work there anymore got to deal with the older guy (don't like him)

So going to call Ian today and see if we can meet up etc.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » September 11th, 2005, 10:25 am

If you want, I can drive up with you guys and show them the code on my engine, that should be proff enough for them....

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » September 11th, 2005, 11:32 am

Nd4SpdSe wrote:If you want, I can drive up with you guys and show them the code on my engine, that should be proff enough for them....

I'm afraid that's not enough Mike. That was already explained to them when we pointed out that the engines they are selling which they pointed out as "ZE's" have a different head code. Their response "KL101 / KL1A1 head code is also a ZE engine. Can't get it through their thick heads that they are wrong. Of course they can't be wrong, they've been doing this for 10 years. Arogant, pompass @sses!!

Perhaps someone could verify that there's a smoothed flattened out tab on the rear bottom half of the block containing some sort or stamping. Serial # perhaps or block stamping perhaps. On the rear part of the block not too far above the pan on the belt side. If this can be used as a mechanism of identification that would be great. But it may be a longshot since the DE block and ZE block were the same. Aside from Ian taking the IM off and verifying that the intake ports are "D" shaped which should prove that it's a DE and/or removing VC and looking inside to see if piston tops are rounded (DE) or flat (ZE).

Here's a copy I posted for him in ONPOC and MX-6.com;

A friend just had a "supposed" ZE installed in his MX3 at Tiger Jappanese in Toronto. After he picks it up I finds a noticeable difference from the 1.8 V6 but not alot. He checks the head codes and the answer is there KL101 and KL1A1. DE head codes right. These bozo's are trying to pawn off that this is a ZE motor and we all know it's not and now it's the owner's word (John) against my friend's. The only way that this will be resolved or achieve a positive result is to find some sort of psuedo documentation for a Ford dealership/shop where they are willing to commit to paper stating that this engine is in fact a "DE" engine found on Probe engines from X date to X date. Something that is signed, stamped, on businesses letterhead, anything that will be formal enough to convince these numpties. If there's a Ford publication that clearly indicates that this is a DE engine by the head codes would be of great help also. I think it may be almost impossible to find any FIRM literature as to KLZE identification via the head codes but if someone knows of any that would be outstanding. These people are saying they only get ZE Mazda engines and they were almost ready to point the finger at their supplier.
My friend needs to to prove in both directions - from a Ford perspective what it is and from a Mazda perspective what it isn't. Directions to a reputable shop/dealership that knows their way around a ZE and knows how, what, where to get this documaentation would be great. Any location in and around GTA and even outside of GTA if need be. We have to prove overwhelmingly what this engine is/isn't via the head codes. Thanks,

John

Ian when you get those declarations / statements from those shops do not tell them where your swap was done. It's none of there business, and I believe it will be safer this way. Toronto may be big but not big enough that due to the nature of this subject, this type of info travels and these shops do talk to each other. All they need to know is that it was a private deal and that you would rather not discuss the other party. Much safer that way. Have I steered you wrong yet??

raidermaniac · Post by **raidermaniac** » September 11th, 2005, 2:07 pm

i had the same problem with osaka when they sent me a de instead of a ze,they kept insisiting that as long as it said kl on the block it was a ze regardless of what the head codes were.i couldn't find a mazda dealer or engine importer who could give me official documentation of what the differences were between a de or ze,i think this may be a problem for you.i got the right engine from them from harassing them constantly and comparing pics to what was advertised on their site and pics of what they sent me.
btw osaka did tell me to install the engine and then dyno it and if it didn't produce 200 hp they would take the engine back,but since i was installing the engine myself i didn't want to go through all the work for nothing.
DO NOT BUY FROM OSAKA

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » September 11th, 2005, 4:50 pm

raidermaniac wrote:i had the same problem with osaka when they sent me a de instead of a ze,they kept insisiting that as long as it said kl on the block it was a ze regardless of what the head codes were.i couldn't find a mazda dealer or engine importer who could give me official documentation of what the differences were between a de or ze,i think this may be a problem for you.i got the right engine from them from harassing them constantly and comparing pics to what was advertised on their site and pics of what they sent me.
btw osaka did tell me to install the engine and then dyno it and if it didn't produce 200 hp they would take the engine back,but since i was installing the engine myself i didn't want to go through all the work for nothing.
DO NOT BUY FROM OSAKA

Well of course he told you to dyno it knowing full well that you'd probably give up after a while and would not want to remove and re-install another engine. He was depending completely on tiring you out - no skin of his @ss. Some of these guys are just as crooked here as they are in other parts of the world I've been. You've got to be firm, aggressive, clear and concise, extremely verse in subject matter, and leave nothing and I MEAN NOTHING to chance or possible missinterpretation. There should be no grey areas, no fudge areas and absolutely no ambiguity. The only one will loose will be you.
A statement indicating that it's a NA Spec engine based on head codes should not be a tough chore. Clearly these codes are on NA Spec Probes, 626's and MX6's. Getting a statement from the Ford and Mazda shops as to them stipulating in clear that it is a 2.5L KLDE engine on the premise that you need that information for his E-Test. It will be addressed to "To Whom it May Concern" and it will also include the vehicles VIN # on the statutory declaration. Any other legal beagles got other suggestions that may support this?

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » September 13th, 2005, 4:02 pm

Ian, FWIW, on the back of their large business cards they were handing out at DarkNights it says "We guarantee your 100% satisfaction on orders small or large, whether you're from a local company in Toronto, or from anywhere in North America" I'd say you're not 100% satisfied, are you?

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » September 17th, 2005, 5:01 pm

Ian, just finished talking to Danny @ Extreme Automotive, 1 Stienway Blvd, Unit 13 (near Hwy27 and Steeles). He's a former MX3 owner/tuner and a current RX7 owner. He said he'd be glad to give your engine a looking over and submit in writing as to it's authentication. You can contact him at the shop at (416) 213-0034 or toll free 1-877-217-0034 or his cell (416) 839-5331. How's it going with the other confirmations?

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » September 30th, 2005, 3:01 pm

Ian, isn't your 30 day window to make your claim nearing an end? Haven't seen any posts as to them agreeing to replace your DE with the ZE you paid for. Hope your not going to let it slide ... $1,000 for a $200 - $300 DE engine and perhaps a very well used DE engine probably? Since it's a DE engine it is in no way going to be low mileage engine like a ZE since it came from a NA Spec car. It won't bode well for future ZE buyers. It will be a clear signal from you to the owners that this type of business practice is acceptable. How are the declarations from a Mazda and Ford shop coming?

Jay72 · Post by **Jay72** » October 3rd, 2005, 2:40 pm

*Sorry I'm jumping into Deimos' thread like this.* I am so lucky that I just happened to find this thread though. I was going to go see the same guys today for a ze! Now I'm totally discouraged to deal with them. Unless, there is some fool proof way to get the proper engine installed from them. I was thinking of taking pictures of the "model" ze that they show everyone and have them write the existing vin on the block and the kl31 code on the invoice and leave with a copy for my own records. Either that or just get them to send the engine to my mechanic and watch them load the proper one onto the truck before they deliver. What do you all think would be the best preventive measures into not getting duped by these people? Or should I just go searching for another REPUTABLE shop in Toronto for a ze? If anyone knows of any that would be great help.
Thanks

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » October 3rd, 2005, 3:12 pm

It's been posted a number of times in the Toronto Forum.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » October 3rd, 2005, 3:15 pm

Jay72 wrote:*Sorry I'm jumping into Deimos' thread like this.* I am so lucky that I just happened to find this thread though. I was going to go see the same guys today for a ze! Now I'm totally discouraged to deal with them. Unless, there is some fool proof way to get the proper engine installed from them. I was thinking of taking pictures of the "model" ze that they show everyone and have them write the existing vin on the block and the kl31 code on the invoice and leave with a copy for my own records. Either that or just get them to send the engine to my mechanic and watch them load the proper one onto the truck before they deliver. What do you all think would be the best preventive measures into not getting duped by these people? Or should I just go searching for another REPUTABLE shop in Toronto for a ze? If anyone knows of any that would be great help.
Thanks

I'd just honnestly tell them that you know the situation one of their customers are currently going through that you want a guarantee that they won't do the same do you. You know it's suppse to be KL31, they should now know it's a KL31 and realise their mistake.

Selecta · Post by **Selecta** » October 3rd, 2005, 3:56 pm

Not sure if Ian posted it here but he was telling me they had 6 DEs with curved necks.....but then again maybe after ian's incident they have realised they were in error and will not try and sell DEs with curved necks as ZEs...one can only hope that is hehhehehehe