Won't Start Need Help

Johnjj728 · Post by **Johnjj728** » March 29th, 2005, 2:57 pm

Well, last year the same thing happened to me right before i took the car off the road. This morning i went out started it up and it was idling rough, like every morning. Some background info on the car: KLZE with curved neck manifold, corksport reprogrammed ecu, fuel pressure regulator. Every morning the fuel pressure is at around 65-70 psi. My mechanic said it was normal because the engine is cold. When its at that fuel pressure it idles real rough, and at 800 rpm or so for the first 5 minutes then it goes up to 1500 and back down to 800 after a few minutes. Well this morning it died while i was inside the house after starting it up. I went out and tried to start it and it wouldnt start. Smelled like gas real bad. Got home around 3 and tried starting it again, thinking its just flooded, but it still wouldnt start. I got spark, brand new plugs. And i got fuel because i can smell it all over the place. Any ideas what to do? If its flooded, which is my guess, how do i unflood it? Any help is appreciated. THanks alot.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » March 29th, 2005, 3:18 pm

That seems like way too high of fuel pressure.. whether the car is cold or not.. I think I have read here in the forums that you should be running around 45-50 PSI. I would suspect the FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) is not doing its job for whatever reason. But before you start ripping things apart.. wait for some of the other folks on here that are running a similar setup since I dont have first hand knowledge I may have my information wrong. In any case.. best of luck!

Tunes67

Johnjj728 · Post by **Johnjj728** » March 30th, 2005, 6:39 am

bump... p.s.- when the engine warms up, the fuel pressure drops back down to 40psi

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » March 30th, 2005, 9:21 am

John, Your original post says ZE, Re-programmed ECU and FPR. You didn't quite specify why you mentioned FPR. Is the FPR after-market, and if so is it adjustable? Reason for Q's, shop manual for K8 calls for a normal running pressure range of 30-38psi w/ PRC sensor and a range of 37-46 w/o PRC sensor. On hot restarts, the PRC sensor will close bumping up the pressure to 41.2psi for 120 seconds upon which it supposed to return to 32.7psi - normal idle psi. I'm assuming that you have an onboard FP gauge since you were able to give numbers or did you tap into the connecting fuel line between the fuel rails? I'm also assuming that when you say re-programmed ECU, you're indicatinf a re-programmed K8 ECU. I'm going to assume that the major re-progamming was wrt fuel mapping etc. I'm hoping that your ZE swap still retained the PRC solenoid. That's the little sensor attached to the side of the airbox with a 2 wire connector and 2 vaccum line ports. Top port goes to the FPR and the bottom port goes to a vaccum lead to the IM. It appears that many ZE conversions have removed or omitted the PRC and in your case your K8 ECU may still be looking for that info. The other player here is that you mentioned the idle searching symptom (revving idle) again some ZE conversions seem to negate the use of or have inexplicably removed the coolant lines from the TB. There is a couple of current threads that address these specific issues. I recommend that you read those first as well as post back some of the necessary info that I just addressed so as to get at the heart of the matter. John, 65-70psi seems extremely high and if you have been running that rich that long, the possibility of a clogged cat could also be a cause for your complete shut-down. Have you seen any CEL codes? Something you could try now is disconnecting the negative battery cable for a minimum 60 seconds, then depress the brake pedal for a minimum 10 seconds, then reconnect the battery cable. That one is just a shot in the dark to clear the ECU memory and perhaps let you start the car.

http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=39984

'92 manual page F2-117 to F2-123

Johnjj728 · Post by **Johnjj728** » March 30th, 2005, 10:51 am

Yes, it is an aftermarket adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I didn't do the swap myself. I bought the car off another mxer that already had the swap done. The fuel pressure is normally at about 40psi. Only in the A.M., when i first start the car, its suddenly at 60-70psi at idle, and the idle is extremely rough. Smokes alot. But when it warms up the pressure is back to 40 or so, and the idle smooths out. Im monitoring the fuel pressure with the gauge thats on the regulator. Im not sure about the PRC valve. My guess is that when it was warming up the other morning, and died with the key in the on position, the fuel pump kept pumping fuel to the engine and flooded out. With any luck it'll start right up when i get home today.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » March 30th, 2005, 10:55 am

died with the key in the on position, the fuel pump kept pumping fuel to the engine and flooded out. With any luck it'll start right up when i get home today

From what I have recently learned.. the fuel pump is actuated by the crank position sensor.. so if the engine isnt spinning.. the fuel pump remains dormant. I am wondering if such high fuel pressure may have damaged one or more injectors.. but thats unfounded speculation on my part. Best of luck man.

Tunes67

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » March 30th, 2005, 11:07 am

Perhaps contact Corksport and find out exactly what is reprogrammed in your K8 ECU, what functions or functality has been changed, eleminated etc. That would include whether the PRC solenoid is still retained in the programming. What's the fuel mapping criteria, etc? You still haven't clarified the existance of the PRC solenoid or if it's hooked up correctly, the existance of the TB coolant lines, how long this high idle/ revving issue has been going on for, etc. The more you give us John the better we can help.

Johnjj728 · Post by **Johnjj728** » March 30th, 2005, 11:12 am

jschrauwen wrote:Perhaps contact Corksport and find out exactly what is reprogrammed in your K8 ECU, what functions or functality has been changed, eleminated etc. That would include whether the PRC solenoid is still retained in the programming. What's the fuel mapping criteria, etc? You still haven't clarified the existance of the PRC solenoid or if it's hooked up correctly, the existance of the TB coolant lines, how long this high idle/ revving issue has been going on for, etc. The more you give us John the better we can help.

The ECU was done by corksport to KLZE specs, according to the last owner. Im at school right now and wont be able to look at the car for few hours. I know the TB coolant lines are in tact and not rerouted. The idle is weird....If its warm out, say over 40-45 then it will start, idle at 1500 rpm, and then drop to 800 for the rest of the time. If its cold, below 40 degrees, then the idle will be below 1000 for 5 minutes or so, then jump to 1500 til its completely warm, and then drop back down to 800ish.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » March 30th, 2005, 11:37 am

Understood. Get back with all of the info we asked for when you can, cheers.

John S

Johnjj728 · Post by **Johnjj728** » March 30th, 2005, 3:22 pm

I do have the prc, its got a plug with 2 wires going into it and then 2 small vaccuum lines coming out, theyre about 1/4 inch in diameter. I found that. But ive never seen a PRC before so im not sure if its the PRC.

Johnjj728 · Post by **Johnjj728** » March 30th, 2005, 3:23 pm

I do have the prc, its got a plug with 2 wires going into it and then 2 small vaccuum lines coming out, theyre about 1/4 inch in diameter. I found that. But ive never seen a PRC before so im not sure if its the PRC.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » March 30th, 2005, 7:03 pm

Johnjj728 wrote:I do have the prc, its got a plug with 2 wires going into it and then 2 small vaccuum lines coming out, theyre about 1/4 inch in diameter. I found that. But ive never seen a PRC before so im not sure if its the PRC.

That's the PRC solenoid. Confirm the correct routing as I previously indicated. Go to the online manual (approx page F2-117 to 123) and confirm the viability/serviceability of fuel pressures and PRC solenoid (do the checks as per the manual for fuel pressures and for the PRC solenoid). You haven't mentioned any CEL codes as requested. Does your ECU still have that capability? You also forgot to mention if you had done the ECU memory wipe yet? You also haven't indicated how long this scenario has been going on. Go through and verify all vaccum lines. There's a reason you have been running rich. As a side note, your re-programmed ECU may be at the heart of most of your problems. I only say this from observed comments on this BB, that regard corksports re-programmed ECU's as not very reliable or problem-free. It's taking quite a few posts to get you to get all this data for us so that we can better assist you.
Standing by awaiting your findings.

Johnjj728 · Post by **Johnjj728** » March 31st, 2005, 6:41 am

Well yesterday i got her running again. I pulled the fuel pump fuse, cranked the engine 5 or 6 times. Then readjusted the fuel pressure a bit, put the fuse back in, and got her started. When i got it started it was really quiet at first, unusually quiet. Then after a few minutes it got loud, back to normal. I got a feeling i may have a clogged cat or an o2 problem from running rich so often.