Hey guys,
I know there’s a supercharger thing in the FAQ but its all screwed up and I know I shouldn’t be lazy but since the format wasn’t up to date with the new message board I didn’t want to read it. SO!
I have a few questions for those of you with supercharger knowledge. My friend convinced me into looking into a Vortech Supercharger setup because he said it would be MUCH cheaper than a turbo. Now since I don’t know anything about turbo’s or superchargers I took his word for this although it made sense to me when he explained it. We couldn’t find a supercharger kit for the MX3 so I was wondering what all there would be evolved in buying? He said that an intercooler and BOV are optional on a supercharger but the intercooler would give a HP gain... So I guess what I’m looking for is all the input I can get. I really don’t know what questions to ask because this is all in the dark to me. So if you guys don’t mind give me some info/input or just club with me with a stick for bugging you!
(note: I have a stock K8 right now, but come June/July or later in the end of the year I will be putting in a KLZE first, unless I was to buy the supercharger stuff after I receive my motor and have it all done at the same time)
Supercharger in K8/KLZE ?
Supercharger in K8/KLZE ?
Ever notice anyone driving slower than you is an idiot and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?
01-03 Civic Projector Swap Tutorial
01-03 Civic Projector Swap Tutorial
Hmm, well, first off I wouldn't say a supercharger system would be cheaper than a turbo per se, in fact, I know of very few supercharged MX-3's but I'm sure you can find them around.
Since you said you know nothing about either system, we'll start with the basics......
Superchargers are not necessarily cheaper, in fact unless you find a kit, I believe both are going to be very comperable in price.
Superchargers
Pros: No spool time, Smoother torque curve, power from idle, less modifications (depending on installation)
Cons: Less efficient, harder to raise boost, parasitic drag
Turbochargers
Pros: Easier to raise boost, More efficient, more of a following, less paracitic drag
Cons: More parts to install, boost lag, peaky torque curve
Now there is a misconception that an intercooler will provide HP. Actually, it lowers the temperature of the intake charge which helps keep the heat from ROBBING horsepower. It does this by allowing more air into the chamber. Also, the intercooler will cause a pressure drop throughout the system. (cooler temps = tighter molecules = less pressure. Also it causes some drag thru the system as well)
The supercharger is less efficient since is 'uses power to make power'. This means that it uses the crank to turn the compressor, and so it is basically an accessory. And as we all know, all best driven accessories cause drag, and steal power from the wheels. (turn your a/c on and you will notice this) The turbo uses the exhaust gas flow to spin a turbine which in turn spins the compressor. People figure that an engine splits the power into 3 terms. 1: Power to the wheels 2: Heat energy 3: exhaust. So the turbocharger takes 1/3 of that power that would otherwise be lost, and generates power from it. Don't let the pro-turbo guys fool you, the turbo does introduce a drag from the engine in the form of exhaust restriction, but it is minimal compared to the SC and doesn't effect the efficiency much.
With a turbocharger you have to screw around with the exhaust. This means you have to route the exhaust pipes to a collector, and then into the turbo, then back to the exhaust track. This is where the supercharger prevails. With a supercharger, you only have to reroute the intake piping (which you also have to do with a turbo) If you put an intercooler in the system, there is a lot more piping to be fabricated. It may seem like a pain in the a--, but the intercooler (while not required on either system) is definatly encouraged.
Since the supercharger is connected directly to the engine by way of a belt, the compressor is spinning and giving boost at all times. A turbocharger will show lag since it will take some time to spool and thus taking it longer to give boost. Which brings me to another point. A turbocharger regulates boost by use of a wastegate. To increase boost all you have to do is 'fool' the wastegate by way of a boost controller. A supercharger you have to replace the pully to that of the intended boost. Since they rarely sell pullies in increments of .5lbs and such, it is easier to get the exact boost pressure you want with a turbo.
Another plus for the turbo is it is universal, whereas superchargers are application specific. i.e. you're going to have to find a kit to use a supercharger unless you are good at fabrication.
I know I have left some key points out, but it is 2 in the am and I am getting tired
So if you have any questions, feel free to email me. (I don't visit the site much, so a reply post won't do you much good.
If you'd like to do some reading on your own, there are a few good places to go look for information. You can read the FAQ on this site, Probetalk.com, or MX6.com. You can buy some books on the subject. Corky Bell wrote some great literature. Maximum Boost is a pro-turbo book, but it does talk a little about superchargers. Supercharging is also a great book that is a pro-supercharger book. (same author) Also, Overboost.com has some great tutorials also.
I don't know of any turbo kits for the K8 engine, although I'm sure there has to be one or two around (a kit for the KL03 or KLZE will work on the K8, but may find dificulty fitting in the engine bay.) I do know that Thomas Knight Turbos makes a supercharger kit for the MX3 V6.
Since you said you know nothing about either system, we'll start with the basics......
Superchargers are not necessarily cheaper, in fact unless you find a kit, I believe both are going to be very comperable in price.
Superchargers
Pros: No spool time, Smoother torque curve, power from idle, less modifications (depending on installation)
Cons: Less efficient, harder to raise boost, parasitic drag
Turbochargers
Pros: Easier to raise boost, More efficient, more of a following, less paracitic drag
Cons: More parts to install, boost lag, peaky torque curve
Now there is a misconception that an intercooler will provide HP. Actually, it lowers the temperature of the intake charge which helps keep the heat from ROBBING horsepower. It does this by allowing more air into the chamber. Also, the intercooler will cause a pressure drop throughout the system. (cooler temps = tighter molecules = less pressure. Also it causes some drag thru the system as well)
The supercharger is less efficient since is 'uses power to make power'. This means that it uses the crank to turn the compressor, and so it is basically an accessory. And as we all know, all best driven accessories cause drag, and steal power from the wheels. (turn your a/c on and you will notice this) The turbo uses the exhaust gas flow to spin a turbine which in turn spins the compressor. People figure that an engine splits the power into 3 terms. 1: Power to the wheels 2: Heat energy 3: exhaust. So the turbocharger takes 1/3 of that power that would otherwise be lost, and generates power from it. Don't let the pro-turbo guys fool you, the turbo does introduce a drag from the engine in the form of exhaust restriction, but it is minimal compared to the SC and doesn't effect the efficiency much.
With a turbocharger you have to screw around with the exhaust. This means you have to route the exhaust pipes to a collector, and then into the turbo, then back to the exhaust track. This is where the supercharger prevails. With a supercharger, you only have to reroute the intake piping (which you also have to do with a turbo) If you put an intercooler in the system, there is a lot more piping to be fabricated. It may seem like a pain in the a--, but the intercooler (while not required on either system) is definatly encouraged.
Since the supercharger is connected directly to the engine by way of a belt, the compressor is spinning and giving boost at all times. A turbocharger will show lag since it will take some time to spool and thus taking it longer to give boost. Which brings me to another point. A turbocharger regulates boost by use of a wastegate. To increase boost all you have to do is 'fool' the wastegate by way of a boost controller. A supercharger you have to replace the pully to that of the intended boost. Since they rarely sell pullies in increments of .5lbs and such, it is easier to get the exact boost pressure you want with a turbo.
Another plus for the turbo is it is universal, whereas superchargers are application specific. i.e. you're going to have to find a kit to use a supercharger unless you are good at fabrication.
I know I have left some key points out, but it is 2 in the am and I am getting tired
So if you have any questions, feel free to email me. (I don't visit the site much, so a reply post won't do you much good.If you'd like to do some reading on your own, there are a few good places to go look for information. You can read the FAQ on this site, Probetalk.com, or MX6.com. You can buy some books on the subject. Corky Bell wrote some great literature. Maximum Boost is a pro-turbo book, but it does talk a little about superchargers. Supercharging is also a great book that is a pro-supercharger book. (same author) Also, Overboost.com has some great tutorials also.
I don't know of any turbo kits for the K8 engine, although I'm sure there has to be one or two around (a kit for the KL03 or KLZE will work on the K8, but may find dificulty fitting in the engine bay.) I do know that Thomas Knight Turbos makes a supercharger kit for the MX3 V6.
~Ryan~
1994 MX-3 GS Teal
Stock V6 with insane potential
1987 Toyota Pickup
SR5 Xtracab Turbo
--The slow wait until the green light, while the FAST already left when the red went out--
--Sex should be like driving a Honda....slow, obscene, and loud enough for the neighbors to hear--
1994 MX-3 GS Teal
Stock V6 with insane potential
1987 Toyota Pickup
SR5 Xtracab Turbo
--The slow wait until the green light, while the FAST already left when the red went out--
--Sex should be like driving a Honda....slow, obscene, and loud enough for the neighbors to hear--