grrrr.... still problems with starting BP!

matt_fulghum · Post by **matt_fulghum** » February 26th, 2005, 3:39 pm

alright... I've centered the distributor in the middle of the notches, so it shouldn't be running retarded ignition (I'll try advancing it a little later)

I just replaced the spark plugs (the old ones were nasty) and that didn't help at all... I probably just fouled the new ones again... I'll pull em out and check. The car smells like it's running REALLY rich... like a $!@%ing two stroke.

When I get it to actually "start" it goes plunka plunka plunka like it's only running on a couple cylinders.... bad

Gro said that my BP injectors are probably dry, and now I'm starting to agree... so my friend and I are gonna take out the injectors, and clean em with some carb cleaner.... hoping that helps.

so....

Is it safe to use the B6 injectors with the BP? I've heard they're a different size or something... not to mention they flow less, which would be bad I imagine? Or will the ECU compensate for the reduced flow?

Jteezy · Post by **Jteezy** » February 26th, 2005, 3:54 pm

OK man this is what i'd diagnose.

1.fuel and spark
I'm assuming you know how to check for spark and to check for fuel take off your regulator and crank the engine to see if your getting fuel past the fuel rail, put a rag on it, theres alot of pressure coming through there. If you have fuel then just make sure your injectors are plugged in. I HIGHLY DOUBT all 4 injectors would go bad on you, but who knows. Also check the plug wires.

2. VAF or MAF
If your car doesnt start, usually a big cause of it would be a bad air flow sensor that isnt sending the air fuel mixture and is not getting proper readings. If anyone were to unplug their maf, then they're car wouldnt start, sort of like what your describing. Check it out along with your TPS.

3. Ignition timing
Your igntion timing could be too far retarded. Just advance it all the way to see if it'll start, it wont hurt your motor, just dont run it like that cuz pinging might happen. Also your engine timing could be off a tooth, check that out too.

The last test i'd do is check my injector relay and also disconnect your distributor and crank the engine over, take out the spark plugs and see if you actually are getting fuel to the cylinders.

I'm bored and at home for a bit, so try it and post back and let us know what happens. Good luck man. Peace

matt_fulghum · Post by **matt_fulghum** » February 26th, 2005, 5:23 pm

that's the thing tho.... at least one or two of the cylinders are working... I guess

I'm gonna take out the spark plugs I just installed and see if they all have sparked, or gotten wet and not sparked... then I'd know if all the injectors are working or not... not if they're all working at max potential but... whatev

Otherwise, I've gotta take off the old intake manifold cover... which is a REAL b---- with the engine in the car.

I've tried both my old B6 ECU and the new BP one, and both do the same thing... so I don't think that it's a bad ECU.... the thing I'm still confused about though is how come when I put the key in and turn the car to the on position, the water temperature guage shoots up sky high.... and never comes down until I turn the car off.... it's a brand new sensor!

I'll try advancing the timing almost all the way.... the distributor's in the center though..... it shouldn't be retarded. Then I'll check the timing belt, but I never removed it (but I did visually inspect it) so I'm not sure how it'd slip a tooth... I'm not sure how to correctly time a DOHC engine either

the MAF is the same one as I used before, and the car worked before, obviously, so I can't imagine it's problematic.

I'll keep trying things... I hate shotgunning it, but the only code the ECU gives out is 41, which is the VICS solenoid, which I don't have wired up yet... that shouldn't affect starting the engine though.

93SOHC · Post by **93SOHC** » February 26th, 2005, 10:11 pm

don't you need a VAF/MAF whatever outta an rx7, not the sohc one. Maybe I missed something here, but just a thought

Shady469 · Post by **Shady469** » February 27th, 2005, 12:15 am

I hope your not just putting the distributor on and not checking the crank.

Make sure the crank is at TDC, take the cap off of the distributor and make sure the rotor is on cyl #1 (when looking at the motor all the way to the left), and if it's not, adjust it (the distributor) so it is.

Try this, MAKE SURE THE FIRING ORDER IS CORRECT, and see what it does.

BuGS · Post by **BuGS** » February 27th, 2005, 12:20 am

It really does kinda sound like a MAF problem thou... when I went to check if a TII AFM would work my car got really rich real fast then just quit.

matt_fulghum · Post by **matt_fulghum** » February 27th, 2005, 8:18 am

the firing order is now correct... I was reading off a CP topic that said it was 1-3-4-2 clockwise... but it's 1-3-4-2 counterclockwise... that helped a lot with the smell of unburnt gas, and it sounds like it's getting closer, but it's still sounding like it's missing on a cylinder...

I could go get an RX-7 MAF if you think it's worth it, but I get the same problem with both my B6 and BP ECU, and the B6 ECU should understand the stock MAF completely. Nobody ever said anything about requiring the RX-7 or BP MAF, so that's why I'm skeptical about that... it sure doesn't SOUND like it's a problem with richness, but rather an injector's not squirting or something.

I'm gonna pull the plugs that I put in there yesterday and see if they've all gotten fuel. Maybe all the cylinders ARE actually working and I'm just not used to the sound of the engine. It sounds lopey, kinda like a mustang or something with flowmasters... plumpalumpalumplump rather than a smooth vrooom

I'm going to check all the timings again this morning, and reset the distributor. It's getting closer to working though... I can feel it.

On a side note... looking at the distributor from the driver's side body panel, turning the distributor counterclockwise advances timings, and clockwise retards timings, correct? (or have I been lied to once again by CP people

)

matt_fulghum · Post by **matt_fulghum** » February 27th, 2005, 9:30 am

okay... wow... I think it was a bad spark plug wire (I had tested them before but I guess the problem was intermittent, like a bad contact or something.. that'd explain why it died randomly sometimes).

I adjusted the timings and everything... they were all fine, so I started pulling plugs... I went in the firing order for no really good reason but anyway...

I pulled #1, carbon buildup... cleaned that off put it back in.
I pulled #3, carbon buildup... ditto
I pulled #4, once again, carbon buildup
I then pulled #2....

it was clean.

smelled a little of gas, so I think the injector is fine.... I'm still going to clean them though, but there was no carbon on it at all... that was really suspicious, so I pulled one of the plugs from my old SOHC, and plugged it on, and it ran much better... didn't sound like it was missing the cylinder at all.... so.... I guess I'll go pick up some new NGK wires.

Eh, could've been worse

I'll keep you posted

Shady469 · Post by **Shady469** » February 27th, 2005, 10:25 am

Who/what is CP? You should just do the opposite of whatever they tell you: Rotating the disty clockwise (towards the firewall) ADVANCES timing.

matt_fulghum · Post by **matt_fulghum** » February 27th, 2005, 2:58 pm

that's what I thought.....

clubprotege....

anyway, I think you guys are right about the MAF..... it's calibrated totally wrong for the BP. the car starts and runs for a little while, then slowly dies, so I'm gonna pick up a protege LX's MAF today at the J/Y and try that out.

93SOHC · Post by **93SOHC** » February 27th, 2005, 4:38 pm

hope that works for you

Typhoonk · Post by **Typhoonk** » February 27th, 2005, 7:12 pm

weird? I am still running a 1992 SOHC MAF, and mine pulls damn strong. Pulled a lot stronger when I have my RX7 MAF on - but used a lot of gas, and I didn't have the time to tune it.

The problem I had when my BP woun't start was just a ground issue. Forgot to put the main ground strap on the front of the engine (therefore no spark no start)

but good luck!!! your my hero!!! can't wait to hear you got it running!!!

matt_fulghum · Post by **matt_fulghum** » February 27th, 2005, 7:27 pm

well... here's the thing.... the car actually STARTS....

BUT!

it'll stall out after a little while. It smells rich afterwards. I'm gonna probe the O2 sensor tomorrow and adjust the MAF, see if that helps. I think it has to be the MAF because when I push the gas a little it causes the car to bog down a lot, probably because it richens the mixture. The TPS might have something to do with it, but it was working perfectly on the B6 before I moved it to the new engine (it's a BP TB)

atlantamx3 · Post by **atlantamx3** » February 27th, 2005, 8:50 pm

Does it Idle at all??

My BP Has a weird problem... it will start fine & Idle fine and everything.

When you slam the gas down-- it will bog & backfire and sound like crap.

If you roll into the gas-- it will rev like a bat out of hell. Just like its supposed to.

We reset the TPS, checked 3 different VAFs (1 B6 & 2 BP05 & picked the one with the best numbers), and replaced the o2 sensor.

I always let my BP fully warm up before I take her out too.

Anyway-- it still does the same thing eve after we reset all that stuf and replaced the o2 sensor.

I cant figure out why.

As long as I roll into the gas- it will run like a MoFo.

atlantamx3 · Post by **atlantamx3** » February 27th, 2005, 8:52 pm

I am also using 1.8L SOHC BP Fuel injectors as well. They are the same cc as the DOHC ones and they are the only ones I could find.