OBDII (or not) in Europe

IanL · Post by **IanL** » August 16th, 2004, 11:05 am

I've been doing some more research on this subject. Up to now, I've always assumed my '97 model was OBDII, because it has a four-connector ECU and it's a '97.

But it turns out that it has no Diag Connector 2 under the dash, the FEN terminal in the diag connector under the hood is populated, and ECU connector #2 has nothing plugged into it. Now the things which plug into connector #2 in the four-connector K8 ECU on the Canadian '96 model are the extra O2 sensors and the EGR boost sensor, which are additions for OBD2. So my car is NOT OBDII. ##It's an OBDI with a four-connector ECU.##

I don't know whether this applies to all late-model European MX-3s, but its a fair bet, as, to the best of my knowledge, European governments did not require OBDII; it was at manufacturers' discretion. I think it's likely to apply to the KLDE cars as well.

What would this mean for swapping in a KLZE? Well, connectors #1, #3,and #4 on the four-connector ECU have the same numbers of pins as #1, #2, and #3 on the three-connector ECU. So, maybe you can just plug in a three-connector KLZE ECU? Not quite, if it follows the scheme in the '96 Wiring Manual. There are about 18 changes to make out of 58. But it could be manageable. Can you just plug in a four-connector KLZE ECU (KL62)? Not if it follows the scheme for four-connector KLDEs - you'd have to change 57 pins out of 58.

Now when did the change from three-connector to four- happen? There are two possible dates according to the Parts Catalogue, the first given as 941201 and the second not given, but some time before 961101, when the part changed from K857... to K861... . Trouble is, I can't tell whether the format is y/m/d or y/d/m, as none of the dates has the m/d field featuring a value higher than 12

[ August 16, 2004, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: IanL ]

IanL · Post by **IanL** » August 17th, 2004, 6:12 am

With Macen's help, I think I have worked out the story for European ECUs:

There is one "flavour" of ECU up to the end of '94. At the beginning of '95, they introduced the option of an immobiliser system, and the cars with that got a new ECU with four connectors; the cars with no immobiliser kept the three-connector ECU.

The part numbers are:

K8 without immobiliser K838-18-881A
K8 with immobiliser K861-18-881B
KL without immobiliser KL02-18-881B
KL with immobiliser KLA4-18-881

There are a couple of assumptions in this, so it would be helpful if Euro-owners with 95-on cars could report their ECU part numbers and number of connectors.

mmac · Post by **mmac** » August 17th, 2004, 3:52 pm

Not exactly what your lookin for but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth :

My car is a UK model registered July 1994(probably means that spec wise it is early 1994).
Was fitted with immobiliser, but I'm sure that the previous owner(owned from new) said it was fitted after purchase of car. So assume it was non-immobiliser as new spec.

It had OBD I ECU (3 connector)

The ECU p/n was K820(big letters), K818-18-881B

So your 1995 onwards (no-immobiliser) may have kept three connectors but the ECU p/n changed.

P.S.

A possible way to get round the ECU problem might be to remove the 'fuelling' EPROM from your ECU. Have an EPROM socket soldered in its place. Then get a new EPROM programmed with the KLZE BIN file.Plug it in, and in theory,away you go(That's how I run my car).
That is effectively what Superchips do except they have their own proprietry decrypter in between eprom and socket (so that you can't just rip the BIN file from their chip and use it in another ECU unless you have a spare decrypter)
P.M me if you want talk in more detail about this.

P.P.S
UKMX-3(member no. 6029) has done the KLZE swap and his car is 1997/98 he got his ECU re-programmed by Dastek and I think the engine swap was carried out by a garage. Might be worth PM or e-mailing him to find out if there were any complications.

Hope this makes some sense & is of some use

[ August 17, 2004, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: mmac ]

IanL · Post by **IanL** » August 18th, 2004, 4:19 am

Thanks for the reply, it all adds to the "knowledge database". No mention of your ECU in the Parts Catalogue - I'm wondering whether it was superceded, and that the catalogue perhaps only lists current replacement items, as it shows K838-18-881A for your's.

I like the suggestion of the ROM chip - and it would mean you can keep the EGR functionality. I'll look into it. Knowing that the harness is OBDI, it's a very attractive idea to have a KLZE fuelling chip - one assumes it handles the VRIS solenoids as well.

[ August 18, 2004, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: IanL ]

mmac · Post by **mmac** » August 18th, 2004, 6:32 am

Ian

Check your PMs

Incony · Post by **Incony** » December 31st, 2004, 8:56 am

Hi.. read in your August post that you have looked at using the KL62 ECU..

I have one i want to look at using in my Ford probe fitted with the Mazda Eunos 800/Xedos9 24V engine (with the curved neck manifold and uprated heads etc..)

I am looking for wiring info for the KL62 so i can consider using it and a MAF.. rather than the Probe VAF and stock ECU..

you can see what i am doing so far here:

http://www.incony.org/KLZEWiki/pwp_1-4- ... =StartPage

so any info on the KL62 regarding pin outs / performance considerations etc would be much appreciated.. thank you.

Inc

IanL · Post by **IanL** » December 31st, 2004, 11:49 am

Incony wrote: ....so any info on the KL62 regarding pin outs / performance considerations etc would be much appreciated.. thank you

Hi, I can help with wiring info - if you PM me your email, I'll send you a spreadsheet which includes the information you'd need. The extent of rewiring will depend on the year of your car, and perhaps whether it is fitted with factory immobiliser.

The rewiring for the MAF is on Probetalk: http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread. ... llenia+vaf

Incony · Post by **Incony** » December 31st, 2004, 9:17 pm

Thank you, that would be great.. will PM over the weekend..

tocixxx · Post by **tocixxx** » January 2nd, 2005, 6:04 am

Wait a minute,
not only the immobiliser chagend, but also the layout of the circuit board !

The 95 and on (Facelift) models DO NOT have a EPROM in the tradtional way! They have the fuel curve programmed inside the Digital Processing Unit . You would have to reprogramm the DPU.
I had in my fingers the KL36 ECU, THE KL05 (European Version of the MX-6 ECU with 3 connectors) the KL62, and the K8 one that came with my 92GS

The only ones that fit with the circut layout are the KL05 and the KL36.
They have the same layout BUT there are some differences in the routing.
I studied radio technology 5 years in school so i checked and there were abot 86 diffenences in the layoutm, so i did not try to solder out the KL05 EPROM and reprogramm it !

As far as i know there is no possibility to reprogram the KL05 ECU to a KL31/36 the only reprogrammings i know of are for the VRIS points!
The fuel curve is not touched !

IanL · Post by **IanL** » January 3rd, 2005, 8:47 am

tocixxx wrote:Wait a minute,
not only the immobiliser chagend, but also the layout of the circuit board !

The 95 and on (Facelift) models DO NOT have a EPROM in the tradtional way! They have the fuel curve programmed inside the Digital Processing Unit . You would have to reprogramm the DPU.
I had in my fingers the KL36 ECU, THE KL05 (European Version of the MX-6 ECU with 3 connectors) the KL62, and the K8 one that came with my 92GS

The only ones that fit with the circut layout are the KL05 and the KL36.
They have the same layout BUT there are some differences in the routing.
I studied radio technology 5 years in school so i checked and there were abot 86 diffenences in the layoutm, so i did not try to solder out the KL05 EPROM and reprogramm it !

As far as i know there is no possibility to reprogram the KL05 ECU to a KL31/36 the only reprogrammings i know of are for the VRIS points!
The fuel curve is not touched !

Yes, I found out that the 4-connector boards are totally different inside to the 3-connector ones, and the PROM chip swap cannot be done

I'm not an expert on the 3-connector boards, but I have been told that the PROM chip swap affects the VRIS and the fuelling map. I have heard of people who have successfully put the KL36 chip into an MX-3 ECU.

brakecrasher · Post by **brakecrasher** » January 8th, 2005, 1:07 pm

@IanL
I have an italian 97 mx3 1.8v6, and i want swap the engine with a klde,
I can use my own vaf or i must change it?
I also have to change the ecu or just reprogram my stocks?

IanL · Post by **IanL** » January 8th, 2005, 7:51 pm

brakecrasher wrote:@IanL
I have an italian 97 mx3 1.8v6, and i want swap the engine with a klde,
I can use my own vaf or i must change it?
I also have to change the ecu or just reprogram my stocks?

I don't know of anyone who has reprogrammed a '96 or '97 ECU. Maybe only the factory would know how.

You have a choice of two ways to go:

Keep your K8 ECU and fit a KLDE VAF - this is not perfect but some people think it's good enough.

Fit a KLDE ECU and VAF - this will obviously be better, but will require adapting the ECU harness, which is a lot of re-wiring, as all the wires are changed over. If you want to do this, I can give you the spreadsheet with the information.

The K8 VAF is right for the KLZE, but not for the KLDE.

brakecrasher · Post by **brakecrasher** » January 9th, 2005, 5:43 am

Thanx IanL
I think i chose the second option, so can you give me all that i need
to do it?

IanL · Post by **IanL** » January 9th, 2005, 11:21 am

brakecrasher wrote:Thanx IanL
I think i chose the second option, so can you give me all that i need
to do it?

Its an Excel file. PM me your email address, and I'll send it as an attachment. If you can't read Excel, tell me and I'll send it as a Word file.

brakecrasher · Post by **brakecrasher** » January 11th, 2005, 5:08 am

Ian in another topic i discuss wiht other guys for this "dilemma"

Some guys says that i can keep my ecu and replace the vaf with one of
KL02 , says that work well......

Some guys says the samse word as yours, but it consuming a lot of time
to do, to have a power up of few hp's

Your opinion?

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OBDII (or not) in Europe

OBDII (or not) in Europe

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KL62

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