intercooler with out a turbo or a super....

[VizualXTC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted:<BR><STRONG>after doing some reasearch and listening to what you guys said i realize how stupid my reply sounded and would like to thank you two for corecting me, i now have a better understanding of turbo/super chargers sorry for being ignorant and thanks for the knowledge, <BR>tedleeper</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey bro, the only misconception in your post is that you said it was cooling the exhaust gasses. He wouldn't be cooling anything without the turbo/SC. The reason some turbo applications use an intercooler is because the turbo/sc takes ambient air and basically crushes it. When you compress air it gains heat. The Intercooler will cool down the air making it denser. (you learned in chemistry that when air heats up the molecules space themselves. When they are colder, they nestle together packing more air molecules in the same ammount of space) The intercooler is ALWAYS post-compressor or else it is basically impossible to cool anything unless you use something like a i/c waterbath or something similar. Even then the performance increases would be minimal. <BR>Go buy the book "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell (I should put that in my profile)

[tk1138]

...just wanted to clarify, and give a bit of gas chem theory. When gas is compressed it is misleading to say it 'gained heat'. Compressed gases emit heat compared to uncompressed gases. Some guy named 'Le Chatelier' said that if you do something to a system, the system will change to reduce the effect of the initial change.<BR>So when you compress a gas with a turbo (increasing the internal energy of the gas), the temp of the gas increases, and the gas emits heat to reduce it's internal energy. <P>If you let it emit this heat in an intercooler, then you can increase the density of the air, which allows you to increase the energy density of the air/fuel mixture. But of course everyone on this forum knows that!<P>As for the original post, if the i/c is after the any restriction, including the air filter then the i/c will actually warm the air up a little. If it's after the MAF/VAF then it increases the time lag of input to the ECU, and warms the air up as well. I see no posible advantage in this configuration.

[Stevie D]

I have a 2.5L swap and was wondering where i could get a supercharger so drop jaws and fly. let me know if you know anything... thanks

[pelado]

tk1138<BR>Yeah, yeah, energy cannot be created, only changed in form....<P>Let's say that the discharge of the turbo is entering a pipe that is surrounded by air hotter than the turbo discharge, then the turbo air is no longer "emitting" heat, it will "suck" heat.<P>Correct me if I'm wrong here but compressing air creates heat (let's not get into semantics, I know energy is transferred) due to the increased friction between the air molecules. Heat is "emitted" since this compressed air is hotter than its surroundings.<P>Higher goes to lower - whether its pressure, temperature, or elevation. <P>If I compress gas into a cylinder, then this cylinder will "gain" heat due to the increased kinetic energy of the molecules being released as heat energy. If I stop compressing gas into this cylinder and let it cool to ambient temperature, will the surface of the cylinder be greater than ambient due to the continued emission of heat from the compressed gas inside? No. Will the cylinder lose all of its pressure as it cools off? No. There is simply more mass per unit volume inside the cylinder than exists outside the cylinder, therefore there is a potential energy difference seen as greater static pressure in the cylinder.<P>In conclusion, it is misleading to state that a compressed gas continually emits heat energy.<p>[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: pelado ]

[Psyrg]

Ahh, dont forget Pelado that tk1138 correclty quoted Le Chatelier. This principle in itslef is sufficent evidence that compressed gas will release a specific amount of energy to resist a specific system change.<P>In conclusion, it is not conclusive to conclude that tk1138's conclusion was that the gas continually emits heat. <P>For those interested in how to quantify thermodynamics, an analogy I have been given about heat flow is of electricity. Temperature is to thermodynamics as voltage is to electonics. Similarly, heat goes with current, and both systems have resistance.<P>We can say current flows to equalise a voltage potential (leave a torch on and the battery will go flat), and thus heat flows in a similar way to equalise two differing temperatures. Both motions are slowed by the system resistance.

[pelado]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Psyrg:<BR><STRONG>Ahh, dont forget Pelado that tk1138 correclty quoted Le Chatelier. This principle in itslef is sufficent evidence that compressed gas will release a specific amount of energy to resist a specific system change.<P>In conclusion, it is not conclusive to conclude that tk1138's conclusion was that the gas continually emits heat. <P>For those interested in how to quantify thermodynamics, an analogy I have been given about heat flow is of electricity. Temperature is to thermodynamics as voltage is to electonics. Similarly, heat goes with current, and both systems have resistance.<P>We can say current flows to equalise a voltage potential (leave a torch on and the battery will go flat), and thus heat flows in a similar way to equalise two differing temperatures. Both motions are slowed by the system resistance.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't care if he quoted him correctly, I only care if it really helps anyone understand what is going on here and IMHO that wasn't the case, he only injected an incorrect statement into the discussion.

[powerman_5000]

I know a guy with a nice looking 98 integra and he wants to just put a blow off valve on his car. He asked me if it was possible and I told him no unless he had a turbo. Which he doesn't. Yet he still insist of getting a blow-off minus the turbo.

[David Coleman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pelado:<BR><STRONG><P>I don't care if he quoted him correctly, I only care if it really helps anyone understand what is going on here and IMHO that wasn't the case, he only injected an incorrect statement into the discussion.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Stop being so dang logical man! Just let us argue meaninglessness for no point at all! <P> [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

[pelado]

Fine!<P>A compressed gas "emits" heat. Let's say La Chatelier farted......in a forest......a forest of intake valves!<P>