Super, Turbo & Nitrous?

[Thalaric]

I may not be totally up to date on how each of these work exactly (I've studied the basics... lol). But would it not be possible to hook up each of these to one car? Here's the way I see it could work:<P>The Supercharger:<BR>In short, it sends a whole lot of air into the engine, thus allowing the engine to burn more fuel, thus creating boost.<P>The Turbocharger:<BR>Basically, it removes spent gases from the engine in an enchanced speed. Since the engine now has a greater capacity to get rid of it's exhaust, it can burn more fuel at a faster rate.<P>Nitrous:<BR>By making the fuel inside the engine more combustible, it, well, makes the engine burn more fuel, thus adding more horsepower.<P>Theoretically, you could use the supercharger to add more air to the engine, the nitrous to enhance what the engine is burning, and the turbocharger to remove what the engine burned. Therefore, if you could get all three systems to work together (without destroying the engine), you would have immense potential for increased horsepower, would you not? <P>Now, if money where not a real object (the parts and labour alone will kill a guy, not to mention the needed dyno time to get it all working together), could this be done. Because if it could, I'm going to do it. I'd like your thoughts...

[Sonicxtacy02]

it could be done with the right cash, your next main problem would be getting it all to physically fit in the car, then modifying the drivetrain to support the power.

[Guest]

i don't understand what you are saying about the turbo<BR>could you explain what you mean about removing gasses faster<BR>i thought the turbo just used the exhaust gasses to create boost<BR>thanks

[curtklze]

first, you didnt say what engine you wanted to do this on.4 or 6 cylinder.<P>second it is possible and it has been done.<P>There is a 86 or 87 MR2 that was in the ultimate steet car comp that had a turbo and a supercharger on it. It would have been easy to add a small shot of nitrous.<P>many turbo'd and charged cars add nitrous to cool the intake charge and lower cylinder temps.<P>Really you only need one.<P>For a 4 cylinder car I would recomend a turbo with an intercooler and a 30 shot of nitrous to give a little boost befor the turbo spools up and to cool the hot intake charge.<P>For a V6 (KL03) I would recomend just super charger and an inter cooler.<P>Ether way if you want serious 500 H.P +<BR>you need to build the bottom end very strong. new connecting rods, forged pistons that drop the comp ratio to around 8.2-1<BR>ballance the crank shaft, cut the block for o-rings around the cylinders ect.

[Swego]

Supercharger and turbocharger both boost the car performance by increasing the air flow into the engine(they act as air compressor). Increasing the airflow lets you increase the fuel flow to. In the end you get more air and fuel into the chamber of the engine, which creates a more powerfull explosion. To increase the airflow the supercharger uses a belt to drive itself(just like the a/c compressor). The turbocharger is using the hot exhaust gases to drive itself: the hot air exiting the engine push on a turbine to make it spin, this power is then transfered to the compressor part of the turbo. The turbo is not helping at all to enhance exhaust gas speed (it slows it down a little).

[VizualXTC]

The turbo works the same way as the supercharger. The only difference is that the SC uses a belt to drive the compressor. The turbo uses the power of the exhaust flow to spin a turbine which in turn drives the compressor. Both increase airflow into the chamber, making your computer provide more fuel. More air + more fuel = more power. The nitrous introduces more oxygen into the chamber. The O2 will help the fuel burn more completely. It's said you only burn about 75% of the fuel that goes into your engine. The N20 simply helps burn the rest of it. True, if you want a huge shot of N20 you will have to put MORE fuel into the engine, but that's the basis of nitrous injection.

[marshmallow15]

yea thalaric you got the turbo concept down. the exhaust is used to spin a turbine wheel which creates more air that is shot into your engine and spins a compressor too...more pounds of boost means faster spooling...but isn't good for your internals. this is why turbos make your exhaust sound more smoother and softer.

[marshmallow15]

oops i meant wrong...not down.

[Thalaric]

I'm going to try and reply to all those posts (in descending order)...<P>Q from Sonicxtacy02<BR>My Answer: Well, cash is no issue (my limit for this project is somewhere in the $25,000 CDN. range), and I work for a company that's willing to come up with the drive-train (the gear-heads I work with love a challenge.)<P>Q from Tennis/mx-3<BR>My Answer: Dude, I have no idea what you're talking about<P>(That's my standard reply when I don't whant to answer a question...)<P>Q from curtklze<BR>My Answer: The engine I've got is the KL-ZE (That's the 2.0L V6 J-Spec engine) and I really want to throw on all three items, just so I can say I did. That, and I've got a few other tricks up my sleeve that require the installation of each component (the turbo, super, and NOS).<P>So, I already know that I'm going to basically replace every component inside the engine (which, thanks to my employee discount, won't be too costly). But I only have 2 real concerns:<P>1) Where am I going to fit it all? Besides a custom hood, and/or removing body panels not readily seen from the outside (ie. the panels around the tires), the only other choice I have is pushing the radiator foward (which is going to be replaced by an custom-intercooler system), and the fire-wall back.<P>2) I need to find reliable turbo and superchargers. I've heard nothing but bad news about out-of-the-box products for the MX-3. Anyone have any ideas?

[VizualXTC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thalaric:<BR><STRONG>I'm going to try and reply to all those posts (in descending order)...<P>Q from Sonicxtacy02<BR>My Answer: Well, cash is no issue (my limit for this project is somewhere in the $25,000 CDN. range), and I work for a company that's willing to come up with the drive-train (the gear-heads I work with love a challenge.)<P>Q from Tennis/mx-3<BR>My Answer: Dude, I have no idea what you're talking about<P>(That's my standard reply when I don't whant to answer a question...)<P>Q from curtklze<BR>My Answer: The engine I've got is the KL-ZE (That's the 2.0L V6 J-Spec engine) and I really want to throw on all three items, just so I can say I did. That, and I've got a few other tricks up my sleeve that require the installation of each component (the turbo, super, and NOS).<P>So, I already know that I'm going to basically replace every component inside the engine (which, thanks to my employee discount, won't be too costly). But I only have 2 real concerns:<P>1) Where am I going to fit it all? Besides a custom hood, and/or removing body panels not readily seen from the outside (ie. the panels around the tires), the only other choice I have is pushing the radiator foward (which is going to be replaced by an custom-intercooler system), and the fire-wall back.<P>2) I need to find reliable turbo and superchargers. I've heard nothing but bad news about out-of-the-box products for the MX-3. Anyone have any ideas?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok dood, you got some things mixed up. First the KLZE is a 2.5L V6, the 2.0L engine is the KF-ZE. Second, it is pointless to use a super and a turbo on the same car unless of course you want a LOT of boost and NO turbo lag. Then you would want a sequencial setup. In that situation you are basically just throwing power out the window. You'd have to have the SC flow air that would usually go into the engine, thru the turbo and out the tail pipe. Also you would have to have a seperate tail pipe because your exhaust would basically be untouched. It would give you a dual exhaust look with the shittiest sound you can imagine. To get all three is VERY uneconomical and VERY expensive. If you got alot of money to waste I have a car that could use some. <BR>Also, with nitrous powered turbocharged cars, the n2o is used to spool the turbo, in your case the SC would be doing that so the n2o would be used to increase power at high ranges which could damage your engine. To fit it in the engine bay, you'd have to relocate your battery, remove your A/C, prolly do a whole lot of other frankenstein type modifications to your car. Also, the internals of your engine would have to be upgraded to handle the boost.<P>If you're hard set on the idea there are a few options. First off, the turbo would have to be custom. Thomas Knight Turbo makes a turbo kit for our car but it is VERY poorly made. NOBODY makes a SC kit for our car so that would also be custom. Jackson Racing makes good SC's. There is a site (<A HREF="http://www.mazdamaniac.com" TARGET=_blank>www.mazdamaniac.com</A>) that has the ONLY published supercharged MX-3. There are plenty of turbocharged MX's out there, and even more with N2O. If you have any more questions, don't be hesitant to ask. Also, go to barns and noble bookstore and pick up "Maximum boost" and "Supercharged" bt Corky Bell. Those will tell you alot about turbo and SC.<p>[ June 12, 2002: Message edited by: VizualXTC ]

[Thalaric]

Sorry about some incorrect facts in my last post. It was made very early in the morning, and I was rushing to get it done before I left for work. Thanks VisualXTC for pointing out that the KL-ZE V6 displaces 2.5l and not 2.0l like I posted. <P>Now, when I installed the KL-ZE, I removed the AC. There's almost no need, since summer in Edmonton is like, 3 days long. Seriously, it's winter for 11 months, spring for 2 weeks, 3 days of summer, and then fall. So, I decided I could go without the AC. Having the windows and moonroof open when it's hot will have to suffice. Battery re-location isn't too hard, I'll just buy (or have made) a wiring harness with leads to the new location (probably the trunk.). As for making the rest fit, the hood is being raised in the middle (a cowl-type hood with a custom scoop) 3", and some parts of the engine bay are already modified (to get the new engine in.). Since I was considering going extreme-performance the entire time, I've already got about $5,000 of high-performance engine parts in my garage. That includes, but is not limited to: Drop-forged pistons and rods, new camshaft (custom), high-temperature seals (throughout the engine), heads, valves and a few others that I can't remember this morning.<P>Now, after researching the mechanical end (will it all fit? and will it work properly?), I've decided that I want to drop the turbo. It's going to add too much weight to the car (with the custom exhaust and other parts). That, and getting it to work will probably put me way over budget.<P>You would'nt have any contact information for Jackson Racing would you? I'd love to find out just what exactly they're willing to do.<P><BR>Thanks...

[Sonicxtacy02]

<A HREF="http://www.jacksonracing.com" TARGET=_blank>www.jacksonracing.com</A> . Yahoo does wonders [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

[VizualXTC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thalaric:<BR><STRONG>Sorry about some incorrect facts in my last post. It was made very early in the morning, and I was rushing to get it done before I left for work. Thanks VisualXTC for pointing out that the KL-ZE V6 displaces 2.5l and not 2.0l like I posted. <P>Now, when I installed the KL-ZE, I removed the AC. There's almost no need, since summer in Edmonton is like, 3 days long. Seriously, it's winter for 11 months, spring for 2 weeks, 3 days of summer, and then fall. So, I decided I could go without the AC. Having the windows and moonroof open when it's hot will have to suffice. Battery re-location isn't too hard, I'll just buy (or have made) a wiring harness with leads to the new location (probably the trunk.). As for making the rest fit, the hood is being raised in the middle (a cowl-type hood with a custom scoop) 3", and some parts of the engine bay are already modified (to get the new engine in.). Since I was considering going extreme-performance the entire time, I've already got about $5,000 of high-performance engine parts in my garage. That includes, but is not limited to: Drop-forged pistons and rods, new camshaft (custom), high-temperature seals (throughout the engine), heads, valves and a few others that I can't remember this morning.<P>Now, after researching the mechanical end (will it all fit? and will it work properly?), I've decided that I want to drop the turbo. It's going to add too much weight to the car (with the custom exhaust and other parts). That, and getting it to work will probably put me way over budget.<P>You would'nt have any contact information for Jackson Racing would you? I'd love to find out just what exactly they're willing to do.<P><BR>Thanks...</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Final thing I would like to say. The supercharger does produce boost instantly but it takes power away from the engine to do so. The turbo uses power expelled out the tail pipe to spool and produce power. The turbo is used in more cars simply because it is more efficient. The choice is yours. It would be nice to see more SC MX's out there, but I just wanted to make sure that you knew exactly what you wanted. Good luck on your project. Post pix when yur done.

[Thalaric]

Well, I'm pretty set on installing a supercharger. One of the reasons being is that there are'nt alot of super-charged MX-3's out there. <P>Thanks for the info VisualXTC<P>MX-K, if you want some parts, I'll see what I can do. Give me a shout on ICQ<P>ICQ#: 11193001<BR>or try my cell:<BR>(780) 953-2984<BR>My real names Bobby. Just mention the bulletin board and I'll figure out who you are...