Massive Sludge in my new KLZE...New Pics's

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Pritchett
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Massive Sludge in my new KLZE...New Pics's

Post by Pritchett »

So I bought a KLZE for $742 shipped to alberta from toronto. It's the curved neck KL-31 with KL-01 cams. The engine itself was cleaned by tigerdirect(the importer), it looked great and I was very happy that I was finally gonna swap out my 2L of oil burning a week K8 (I do drive the crap out of it tho). After researching on here, mx-6.com, and probetalk.com I decided I should pull off the front valve cover to inspect the cam #'s and see how well it was maintained.

I've never taken a cover off before so I took the cover off my 93 GS parts car I bought for $400 first. This K8 also burns oil and has a little over 220,000 km's on it. I was surprised and thought it was in fairly decent condition.

Image

Then I decided to tackle the ZE, first thing I noticed was how easy the bolts came out. I bet I could have taken a few out by hand. I also noticed how the importer took off the oil cap and cleaned the inside with a rag. When I saw the condition of the insides I wanted to snap. I've been spending all my money on this swap...I'm a single dad with 2 kids, that I get half the time so money doesn't exactly grow on trees.

Image

So what do you guys think...the valve on the ZE is plugged with sludge and I have no idea how the internals are. I don't have an engine stand and lack most tools. I will be pulling the oil pan to check for any metal parts and to clean out the sludge that resides there as well. Should I try to send this motor back or do you think it might be just a neglective owner. A mechanic friend whose doing the swap says running a litre of tranny fluid for 500km will clean it out...i'm just doubtful as this is the everyday car I need for work and to pick my kid up from preschool as his mom don't drive. So I want to be sure this thing ain't gonna blow up.
Last edited by Pritchett on June 19th, 2010, 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
93 mx-3 GS (KLZE w/kl01 cams, XTD stage 3 clutch, Outlaw intake/throttle body spacers, throttle body coolant delete, headers, full 2.5" exhaust w/resonator and 40 series flowmaster, filled engine mounts)
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_-Night-Shade-_
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by _-Night-Shade-_ »

:shock:

Oh... my... god...
I think that's the worst I've EVER seen! I'd send it back. I just don't see any other alternative other than a complete rebuild.
Also note that it's not a geniune KL-ZE as it would have the KL31 cams. It's probably a high mileage Millenia engine.
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Daninski
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by Daninski »

Good Old TigerJap. I've said this before and I'll say it again. They're a rip off. IMO If they can put one over on ya they will like when they broke my engine block and still loaded it on my truck. Glad I double checked it. Call them up and tell them your shipping the engine back at their expense. Take pics of where they deceptively wiped out the oil cap area (ya that's one of their tricks) as they kept taking oil caps off to show me how clean their engines were.
I feel for ya man, you kept up your end of the bargain and paid them but they didn't keep up their's. Send a letter to the Toronto BBB with pics and complaint to them as well. Good Luck.

http://www.bestofjdm.com/jdm-engine-mazda-s/6.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; nitefire bought from them and was very happy

KL01 is A spec not JDM spec. ZE heads are stamped kl31-101 and kl31-1a1 where as the de heads are stamped kl-101 and kl-1a1
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96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
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92 GS Sold
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Pritchett
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by Pritchett »

The heads are KL31-101 and KL31-1A1...the cams however are KL-01's
93 mx-3 GS (KLZE w/kl01 cams, XTD stage 3 clutch, Outlaw intake/throttle body spacers, throttle body coolant delete, headers, full 2.5" exhaust w/resonator and 40 series flowmaster, filled engine mounts)
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Daninski
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by Daninski »

The straight neck has the cams the curved neck dosen't but in saying that they both produce the same horse power so don't sweat the cams.

I found this for you, read it then proceed as you see fit but if you call Tiger up stay clam, back up your complaints and tell them you took pics. If they start harrassing you ask to speak with the owner, he's right behind they guy your talking with in his office.

1) First off ask to see photos of the engine you will be receiving before you place the order for comparison with the engine you actually receive. When you have received your KLZE you should save the packing list or shipping documents. These are extremely important if a conflict arises so that it can be determined as to where any damage may have originated from. It is highly recommended that you insist on insurance through the shipper.

2) Have a very good digital camera to take photos (as often as possible) from the moment you begin to un-palletize the engine. Take photos before you even touch it. Take photos as you begin to unwrap it. Leave the plastic wrapping around the base of the engine as you dissassemble it for inspection so that it can be seen that you didn't alter anything. Take photos before valve cover removal.

3) Remove the front valve cover and take photos of the head and cams before you remove or touch anything. This is not a 100% indication but the color of the deposits can determine the approximate mileage of the engine. Color can also vary based on how well the car was maintained. But typically if the head is silverish to very light gold the engine can be 20k miles or lower. 20k-50k the color should be a light golden to light bronze with no sludge build up yet. 50k-100k the color may be dark golden to brown and some sludge may be present but not excessive. 100-150K the color will be brown to very dark brown and sludge more than likely present and possibly very thick. Over 150k will be just plain nasty!

4) Inspect very thoroughly for cracked retainers. KLZE engines are very well known for cracking the retainers and dropping the valves. It is also very recommended that after performing your pre-installation inspection that you replace the KLZE intake valvesprings, retainers and locks with either KL01 versions or aftermarket. There are several threads on PT about how to do this so use the search function and do some in-depth reading into this.

5) Remove the cam cap nearest the distributor (not the one that the disributor mounts in). Gently rock it back and forth to losen it until it comes off. (more photos) Then wipe it clean with a very clean dry cloth. Take photos of the clean cloth prior and during wiping to show that you did not cause any scoring that may be found. What you need to look for is scoring in the cam cap. If there is scoring then this is a good sign that there are metal particles in the oil supply that are damaging the cams and bearing caps. These particles are more than likely grinded from the #6 bearing. Ref pics: http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...amagedCaps.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

6) If you find scoring in the previous step then it is highly recommendable to pull the oil pan and inspect the rod and perhaps main bearings. It may not be neccessary to inspect the mains if the rods are good because normally the rods are the first to go and in particular the #6 because it is furthest from the oil supply and gets the least amout of oil.

Put your engine on a stand (if you have one). If you don't then remove the intake manifold and any other breakable items (photo, photo) so you can roll the engine upside down (photos). Remove the oil pan to inspect the rod bearings (photos before touching internals). Then remove the #6 rod cap to inspect the bearing. It should not be scored, malled, jagged, out of alignment from the rod split line or missing. If it shows any unusual wear or signs of burned metal, melted etc then take photos.

7) DO NOT GET MAD AT THIS POINT! It may be very hard to not do so but to get the best results from the importer you need to start with a reasonable attitude. E-mail the high quality photos to the importer and call them directly after sending them so that you can discuss the photos first hand before the e-mail has a chance to slip into oblivion (or denial -whichever comes first). You as the customer should not have to pay for any additional shipping to rectify the problem even though many of the importers try telling you that you have to. If you don't make a stand then you will get abused!

8) If you have been taken at this point and the seller refuses to work with you when you have been reasonable then you have several options available to you. First of all you may post your results with photobucket photos in this thread. Second you can flile a small claims court claim against the importer if they are based in the US. You can report bad customer support to the consumer reports agency http://www.consumerreports.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; And if warranted you may even be able to work through their local law enforcement agency to get your money back. (I have done this before) Just be sure to have all receipts, proofs of purchase, shipping docs, photos etc...
2004 Subaru WRX Silver, stage 2, minty interior.
2002 Subaru WRX Blue, SOLD (best E test numbers I've ever seen)
94 MX-6. Sold
92 GS KLZE 5 Speed
96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
95 GS Minty Shape Sold
92 GS Sold
92 GS Parts Car scrapped.
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Pritchett
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by Pritchett »

Thanks Dan, that's the same write up that enticed me to pull my valve cover in the first place. I'm going to try to get a compression test done to see how the rings are. It might be just 10k over an oil change. I'll phone mike(operations manager with tiger) and see what I can work out. I'll have no problem stating calm as I want results, and anger rarely achieves this.
93 mx-3 GS (KLZE w/kl01 cams, XTD stage 3 clutch, Outlaw intake/throttle body spacers, throttle body coolant delete, headers, full 2.5" exhaust w/resonator and 40 series flowmaster, filled engine mounts)
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Daninski
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by Daninski »

If compressions good maybe you can work out a deal where they give you a couple hundered off to cover the gaskets and what not you'll need just be advised that sometimes its the sludge that's keeping the comprssion up. Once the engine's cleaned it could go to sh*t. Good Luck again
2004 Subaru WRX Silver, stage 2, minty interior.
2002 Subaru WRX Blue, SOLD (best E test numbers I've ever seen)
94 MX-6. Sold
92 GS KLZE 5 Speed
96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
95 GS Minty Shape Sold
92 GS Sold
92 GS Parts Car scrapped.
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wytbishop
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by wytbishop »

The trouble is that you're going to have hard time cleaning it up without taking it apart. You are at least looking at a head gasket and oilpan gasket and probably head cover gaskets. My fear would be that the valve stem seals are also probably shot.

I would say at least you're looking at a re-ring kit.
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Pritchett
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by Pritchett »

How much do they run?
93 mx-3 GS (KLZE w/kl01 cams, XTD stage 3 clutch, Outlaw intake/throttle body spacers, throttle body coolant delete, headers, full 2.5" exhaust w/resonator and 40 series flowmaster, filled engine mounts)
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onlytrueromeo
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by onlytrueromeo »

Too much for what its worth since it's a stock rebuild - you'll be looking at like 400. Return the engine, if you can hand pick one so much the better. I don't know if you guys in canada have a BBB but you could try that route as well.

Luckily when I had probs with my first ZE (headgasket was bad) the company I used swapped it at no extra cost (Though I picked it up myself, etc).

Good luck.
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by RX8SE3P »

Oh man I thought the first one was the KLZE and I thought, hmm that looked similar to mine before I rebuilt.... it's not thaaaat bad......

Then I saw the second pic which was actually the ZE :lol:


Send it back, you probably couldn't even rebuild that crap it's soooooo sludgy. I'd pay $50-100 for that engine.....

They would have to refund you simply on the fact that it aint a ZE, let alone the sludge cake goodness.
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mikeinaus
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by mikeinaus »

Image
i didnt know engines were being affected by the golf oil spill :freak:
Pritchett
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by Pritchett »

and to think I was blaming tigerjap for this, I will apologize immediatly
93 mx-3 GS (KLZE w/kl01 cams, XTD stage 3 clutch, Outlaw intake/throttle body spacers, throttle body coolant delete, headers, full 2.5" exhaust w/resonator and 40 series flowmaster, filled engine mounts)
99 silverado
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by _-Night-Shade-_ »

Pritchett wrote:and to think I was blaming tigerjap for this, I will apologize immediatly
Huh? If you bought it from them then you should definitely blame them.
mikeinaus wrote:i didnt know engines were being affected by the golf oil spill :freak:
SO true! :lol:
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Re: Massive Sludge in my new KLZE

Post by mikeinaus »

Pritchett wrote:
and to think I was blaming tigerjap for this, I will apologize immediatly


Huh? If you bought it from them then you should definitely blame them.
he's fallowing the joke about the bp oilspill. way to ruin it big guy :lol:

btw send the motor back. theres no point in spending your time or money fixing their problem. if the motor wasnt cared enough about to get its oil changed you know they didnt treat it very well.
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