Can't get the timing right

WhiteFinish · Post by **WhiteFinish** » September 3rd, 2009, 9:42 am

Oke,

I followed the instructions as said in this topic:
http://forums.probetalk.com/showthre...&highlight=tps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now my problem
1) When i'm tring to set my timing it goes up and down between 9 and 12 degrees. (idle is @ 900-1000)
2)When I change my idle, my timing changes.
3) When I first set the timing @ 10 degrees and my idle @ 700 the car won't start in diag mode (dies immediatly)
4) THE TPS is set right. (according to instructions)
5) When the car is out of diag mod, the idle goes to 1100
6) When I'm at WOT the car stutturs above 4800rpm (maybe has something to do with it)

What do I have in the car:
KLZE
KLZE ignition
HEI
MSD blaster 2 coil mounted vertical
Magnecor 8,5mm wires.

Why can't I get to car to run right??

WhiteFinish · Post by **WhiteFinish** » September 3rd, 2009, 12:14 pm

Some vids:

No stutter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoBfIqdQg1A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here it starts @4500rpm and just stays there until i stopped shifting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kswrShHa7n8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some more stutter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56gvhrDlHKQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I checked my vris, but they are both working just fine.

hgallegos915 · Post by **hgallegos915** » September 4th, 2009, 5:43 am

hmm so the car is not suppose dto do that?

if i set my idle at 700 like you and stat in diag, it will ALWAYS die.. its normal.. mine has done that all the time.. at least my mx3... the timing, its really hard to mess it up. You canadvance it by putting the disty all the way up or down, whatever the case.

when the disty is in the middle, i notice I cant change my timing since the ecu automatically adjusts it, as soon as I remove the ten and gnd pin

is your car backfiring? if it is yeah timing.... and thats at the crank, manually adjusting the alignment on the cam and crank pulleys/

SuperK · Post by **SuperK** » September 4th, 2009, 7:41 am

why is there no stuttering in the first video, but the stuttering exists in the second one?

WhiteFinish · Post by **WhiteFinish** » September 4th, 2009, 7:50 am

Thats what I don't understand.

Most of the times it stutters, but sometimes it doesn't.

Lets say I rev it up @ 80% WOT in 3rd, and floor it after 5500rpm, there is no stutter, but when I shift to 4th it stutters again.

I checked my vris, but they are both working.

hgallegos915 wrote:hmm so the car is not suppose dto do that?

if i set my idle at 700 like you and stat in diag, it will ALWAYS die.. its normal.. mine has done that all the time.. at least my mx3... the timing, its really hard to mess it up. You canadvance it by putting the disty all the way up or down, whatever the case.

when the disty is in the middle, i notice I cant change my timing since the ecu automatically adjusts it, as soon as I remove the ten and gnd pin

is your car backfiring? if it is yeah timing.... and thats at the crank, manually adjusting the alignment on the cam and crank pulleys/

No, it's not backfiring.
But do you mean, that if you'd set the timing @ 10 degrees in diag. It automatically changes when out of diag mode?? Is that normal for every car?

WhiteFinish · Post by **WhiteFinish** » September 4th, 2009, 9:57 am

Could I test if my HEI or Coil would be the problem??

I have the msd coil; some lokal partsdealer said it wouldn't be that good since it's made in china

SuperK · Post by **SuperK** » September 4th, 2009, 10:06 am

they're idiots. I have the blaster 2 coil on my ZE and it works great.
the computer "fine tunes" the timing, but it's still important to set the timing correctly yourself.
I always suggest the VAF as an issue, but your problem should increase over time, until it's unbearable to drive.

WhiteFinish · Post by **WhiteFinish** » September 4th, 2009, 1:04 pm

I actually rather not wait for it to happen

-- what sequience is right to adjust everything?
First tps, then idle, then timing?
First timing, then tps, then idle?

Whenever I change one of three, the other 2 change as well (TPS very little though)

Another thing what might be of influence.
-- When I have driven a little while on the highway, my idle will go up and down. From 1500-500-1500-500 etc.... but the weird thing is, it only does this when my interior fan is in position 2,3 or 4. When it's in 1 or 0 my car will idle normally.

Pfff... i'm starting to go crazy

wytbishop · Post by **wytbishop** » September 4th, 2009, 2:52 pm

TPS should not be affected by the other adjustments. If youfind that it is inconsisent it's probably because the butterfly valve is worn and there is a little bit of play in the shaft that it rotates on.

You should do TPS, then idle, then timing.

I think the stuttering at high idle is an ignition problem. Everytime I've had that kind of symptom it's been related in some way to my distributor. Try another coil. If that doesn't solve it, try another HEI module. I think what's happening is that the spark is fine at low rpm, but at high engine speeds because the system has to fire so often it's missing enough firing events to cause the engine to stutter. To me that either means that you have a bad coil or more likely a bad HEI unit.

WhiteFinish · Post by **WhiteFinish** » September 4th, 2009, 3:43 pm

Is there a way to test if the HEI is functioning correctly?? It's brand new so thats weird it already fails.

wytbishop · Post by **wytbishop** » September 4th, 2009, 4:15 pm

Trouble Shooting

W = positive lead (+) from the pickup
G = negative lead (-) from the pickup
C = negative side (-) of the coil
B = positive side (+) of the coil
Grd = ground terminal, and it is one of the holes that the screw runs through to attach the module.

Remove the module. (watch out for the dielectric grease on the underside, It's relatively harmless, but goopy:)
Connect a test lamp between the B and C module terminals and jumper +12 volts to the B terminal and then ground the module at the (Grd) terminal. If the lamp lights then the module is bad.
If the module passes step one, then jumper between the B and G terminals. If the lamp lights, the module is probably OK.

I'm sure your module will pass this test, but something is preventing ignition at high rpms. Either it's not triggering right, or not enough fuel or not strong enough spark...something.

WhiteFinish · Post by **WhiteFinish** » September 5th, 2009, 10:37 am

wytbishop wrote:Trouble Shooting

W = positive lead (+) from the pickup <--- Are you sure ?? According to installation instructions this is GroundG = negative lead (-) from the pickup
C = negative side (-) of the coil
B = positive side (+) of the coil
Grd = ground terminal, and it is one of the holes that the screw runs through to attach the module.

Remove the module. (watch out for the dielectric grease on the underside, It's relatively harmless, but goopy:)
Connect a test lamp between the B and C module terminals and jumper +12 volts to the B terminal and then ground the module at the (Grd) terminal. If the lamp lights then the module is bad.
If the module passes step one, then jumper between the B and G terminals. If the lamp lights, the module is probably OK.

I'm sure your module will pass this test, but something is preventing ignition at high rpms. Either it's not triggering right, or not enough fuel or not strong enough spark...something.

I hooked up my HEI the way you said. BUT; what do you mean with a test lamp?? Just a normal LED you'd use to read codes from your diag ??
Some pictures how I tested:

I also noticed a couple of small pins at the bottem of the HEI, it prevents full contact with my chassis.

I connected the test lamp both ways like you suggested, but it won't light either way.

wytbishop · Post by **wytbishop** » September 6th, 2009, 1:50 am

I actually copied that testing bit from another quick google search. I appologize. I should have done a little more thorough research.

Read this thread I found in another forum. It's not long. It will explain a few things about HEI that may make it clearer for you.

http://omgili.com/jmp/.0rSU5LtMgxoDCOcx ... RrzKmr4OI-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically if the holes aren't grounded properly, even for a second in the trigger position, it will fry. Also heat will kill it quickly. I recommend getting another one, grounding it carefully with some heat sink grease and see if it solves your problem. Chances are it will.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » September 6th, 2009, 1:19 pm

That stuttering sounds like missfiring. At night or in a pitch black garage (with proper exhaust ventilation of course

) fire it up and watch for arcing around the distributor cap, especially your modded coil tower. Also watch for arcing around the plug wires. If you see flashes or arcing.. that could also be the problem and why the stuttering is intermittent. This happened to me on my HEI modded RS. The plug wires just couldnt handle the HEI setup and broke down, they were arcing to the valve cover pretty much the entire length of the wires.

This isnt to say that the HEI module grounding isnt your issue. That can cause your issue as well. But if you are still having intermittent missfiring even after replacing the HEI module and having it well grounded.. this is something else to check. Even if you know your wires & distributor cap are new.. they can still suck

Tunes67

WhiteFinish · Post by **WhiteFinish** » September 6th, 2009, 2:04 pm

It seems that most people say it will fry with bad grounding.

Isn't that why the extra grounding wire is for?? It will run to one of the holes, one of the terminals and then to a ground.

Also, if the HEI would be failing, would my car run at all?

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