Problem after KL-DE swap (problem solved)

[Macen]

Today we got the KL-DE engine in the engine bay. Everything worked nicely.

What we didn't do was to take the EGR from the K8... but I'm not sure which one to use. Heard some say that it's the K8 one I should use.

Ok, back to the problem. When we try to start the engine, it dosen't start. Cylinder one ignition wire have we checked for sparks, and it's all ok. We also checked the fule rails for fuel, and there is fuel. But when removing the spark plugs they are not wet from fuel. So we think it has something to do with the fuel injectors.

We use the K8 harness. We have also tried with the old K8 ECU (marked K819) and the new KL ECU (marked KLA2).

Can it be the fuel injection relay? Both connectors for fuel inj. are connect correct. We have checked them several times. Harness should be ok, as it's the one I used with the K8.

Or can it maybe have to do with the PRC Solenoid Valve? It controls the vacuum to the pressure regulator.

The cable with an green arrow did we connect to the brake booster. And the other one (yelow arrow), that is a much softer hose, did we just connect to the big old K8 intake hose between the VAF and throttle body. Should it be plugged instead?
<img src="http://www.student.bth.se/~masx02/hoses.jpg" alt=" - " />

EDIT: Changed the subject to "problem solved".

<small>[ September 04, 2004, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Macen ]</small>

[IanL]

Check for battery volts on the White/Red wire from the EGI Main Relay contact - you can access it in the diagnosis connector terminal B+ , at the top row right hand side.

Check that when the engine is cranking the voltage on the Light Green wire from the Circuit Opening Relay coil drops from Battery volts to less than 1.0 V. - you can access it in the diagnosis connector terminal F/P , at the fourth row second from the right hand side.

I can't see the problem being the PRC Valve. If you apply ground to the Green/Orange wire it will cut the vacuum to the regulator, and increase fuel pressure slightly - but that's only for warm starts.

[Macen]

OK, thanks, I will try that.

Will the engine start even if some vacuum hoses are connected wrong?

There is one pipe on the intake manifold that I haven't connected any hose to. I don't know if there should be any. I have got one small hose loose coming from the back where the VRIS is located. It has the same diameter as the pipe on the intake, but I'm not sure if that one are supposed to fit there.

Here's a pic of the pipe I'm talking about:
<img src="http://www.student.bth.se/~masx02/pipe.jpg" alt=" - " />

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 04:26 AM: Message edited by: Macen ]</small>

[IanL]

I don't know for sure about the pipe from near the VRIS. The VRIS vacuum pipe setup is a pipe from the manifold to a one-way valve (check valve) then to the first reservoir (nearest the "front" of the engine, the end with the belts on), then to the second reservoir, then to a tee-piece, and from the tee to the two VRIS solenoid valves. You should not have any openings to atmosphere from the inlet manifold, so try connecting it. I would not have thought that it would prevent the engine starting, though.

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: IanL ]</small>

[Macen]

The hose that is loose, went to the same thing on the back of the K8 engine as it does on the KL. In the other end it went in to the air filter box. But I have an open air filter, so I just let that hose dangle.
I'm not 100% sure that it's the same hose as on the K8, but I'm going to check one more time.

[IanL]

I think that is the pipe for venting the vacuum from the EGR diaphragm chamber. If it's left open it could suck in muck and block the EGR Vent Solenoid Valve or even interfere with the EGR diaphragm action. It should either have its own little filter attached to the end, or it should be tapped into the pipe between your air filter and the throttle body.

[Macen]

Finaly we got the engine running. Though we had to put another spark plug in the no. 4 ignition wire and hold it against the engine. Then it started after a bit cranking. But it still dosen't want to start like normal.

When it ran, it ran verry nice. No problem at all.

The front of the car is on jack stands, but not the back. Hope that's not causing any problems.

There is no fuel pressure when we open the bolt to the fuel hose. But when cranking there flow plenty of fuel. And spark plugs isn't wet from fuel when inspecting them.

Next thing we will do is to change to the KL wire harness. The K8 harness has three connectors that we can't use. The first one is the knock sensor. The KL don't have any connector for that one. The second is the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECM) (or was it the Water Temperature Sender Unit, I don't remember but only one of them fit). The third one is the Speedometer. The connector on the K8 harness has three cables, but the one on the KL has only 2 (no ground I think). So we left that one unplugged.

Is it possible to mount the distributor 180 degrees wrong? What I saw of the thingy on the dist was that on side was a bit different than the other. It's the K8 dist I use. KL came without dist. What's the firing sequence on the K engines? Is there any difference between KL and K8 distributors?

Where should the ground cable, which is located at the same place as the two connectors to the distributor, be connected?

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Macen ]</small>

[IanL]

If the disty were wrong the engine would not run well, if at all. Lots of guys are using K8 distys with KLZEs so it should be fine with a KLDE.

Try checking the VAF electrically. The starting problem could be due to faulty sensing; I suspect the Inlet Air Temperature sensor, which is built into the VAF.

[Macen]

Ok, will check that. Will also try with the K8 VAF.

EDIT: Why dosen't the KL have any knock sensor? It dosen't sounds good not having one.

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Macen ]</small>

[IanL]

Originally posted by Macen:
... Why dosen't the KL have any knock sensor? It dosen't sounds good not having one.

It does have one - look on Diagram 2 I sent you - it's on the right of the sheet, about halfway down.

I believe it's mounted at the left rear of the engine.

[Macen]

Hm, maybe I have named the connectors wrong on the harness. I have three connectors. The first one, marked red on the picture, is the Crankshaft position sensor.
The second one is a black quite little connector (marked green on the picture). The cable it connects to is black and goes down under the intake manifold.
The third is one of the temperature sensors (marked yellow on the picture). The K8 has two, but I can only find one on the KL. The K8 harness has 5 connectors at the end. And the KL harness only has 3.

<img src="http://www.student.bth.se/~masx02/sensors.jpg" alt=" - " />

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: Macen ]</small>

[IanL]

The missing temperature sensor is not a problem. Between '93 and '95 (so either '94 or '95), Mazda stopped fitting a separate temperature sensor for controlling the cooling fan, and just used the coolant temp sensor for fuel injection control and fan control. Your KL ECU does not expect a second sensor, so that connector does nothing - you can just tape it up. The other connector you have still to connect will probably be the knock sensor, as you said. On the KL, the connection is at the rear of the engine (i.e. the end with the clutch), on the left (i.e. towards the front of the engine compartment), so you will have to extend that part of the harness to make it reach.

I remember someone posting that it was a good idea to do that before the KL is fitted, but too late now

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: IanL ]</small>

[Macen]

Thanks. Then it must be the knock sensor that is causing the problem. If anyone have a diagram of the wiring on the KL?

[IanL]

I have found the following in the Haynes for the 626 and MX-6: "on V6 engines, the connector for the (knock) sensor is located under the Throttle Position Sensor." There is an indistinct photo which I'll email.

[Macen]

Hm, ok. The knock sensor is on the other side of the engine then, just like you said. Will try to find it later. Though I'm back home @ the uni now, so I can't check it until thursday when I'm back at the garage.

<small>[ September 04, 2004, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Macen ]</small>