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Originally posted by Sonicxtacy02:
I cant believe people still dont have this locked into their brains....


KL-ZE (Japanese KL engine)-195bhp
KL-DE aka KL-03 (US)- 160-170bhp.

a few members on probetalk have hit 200whp with the kl-ze with extensive engine work on top of bolt-ons. But 220whp wont be done with either engine short of F/I

who on probetalk has done this? I have been on pt for over 2 years and have never heard of it. the most I have ever heard of was by streetthismx-6 and he has not even hit 200 WHP. maybe when the new czt IM gets finished then some body will do it.

If I had the money I would get an RS and build up a killer 1.8L turbo engine, they make a ton of heavy duty internal and turbo stuff.

If I was gona do a ZE again I would get a straight neck ZE with KL-31 cams, I would get the new hotshot "style" headers, and definaly the new CTZ intake manifold, and CTZ 67mm throttle body and a KL31 ECU.

See! Now that's an answer! Lol

I'm going to collaborate all of the info I gather, price it all out...and hopefully build a well rounded mx! A daily driver that can still kick some butt!

Thx

Keep it coming!

Turbo four cylinder is the way to go. Parts are more common and attainable without custom work. Also means it will be cheaper. Check out the Miata forums for information on turbo BP guys.

The ZE is a very reasonable way to make power, New intake and 67mm throttle body $600.00, new OBX headers $250.00, KL-31 ECU $200.00, a good KL-ZE with KL-31 cams $1600.00, ACT clutch $350.00 + tune up and mantaince $300.00

=$3300.00 USD (on average +labour, shipping and taxes)

or a 4 cyl turbo

1.8L engine ? + turbo kit? + forged rods? + forged pistons? + stand alone ECU (SDS) $1500-2500, + clutch ?

I would prefer a 4 cylinder because the car would be cheapr to purchase than a GS, and cheaper to insure, also if you keep out of the boost you would get very good fuel economy.

Also me being a mechanic, it would be cheap and easy to build up a 1.8L BP, but for others it may be expensive to do it properly.

Biggest thing for me (aside from money) is the lack of a garage and knowledge that has stopped me from doing this so far. Getting those parts is no problem, but putting it all together so it all works is totally different, but its sumthing I plan to do over the summer with my friend.

Also, do you guys actually tell your insurance company that you have out a 2.5l v6 in place of the 1.8l when you swap it out? Cause i SUPPOSE technically if you dont and you get into an accident, then they could say it was misrepresentation and not cover your claim.. just somethin ove been wondering about...

I might not know much about KL series engines; but I do know insurance companies. If you change your damn defroster button, you better tell them. An engine swap....hell yes you have to tell them; especially if your car has a high value. Remember they are in it to make money, not insure you belongings... I've heard of people who never smoked in their lives, not getting thier insurance claims because the previous owner left cigarette burns. And smoking has nothing to do with the equasion.

The moral of the story, if you don't tell your I/C, you might as well not have a plan.

No one has offically hit 200whp with a Kl-series engine all-motor as of yet, the closest that anyone has gotten to 200whp all-motor is by StreetthisMX6 and his numbers were: 1994 MX6 LS 196.1 whp - 171.7 ft/lbs.

Here is a list of what he had done to get at those numbers: Performance Mods:

- Hotshot Cold Air Intake w/ Elbow
- 65mm ZE Bored/Polished Throttle Body
- Outlaw Engineering Throttle Body Phenolic Spacer Kit
- STT ZE Intake Manifold
- Knife-Edged/Ported/Polished/Gasket Matched
- Outlaw Engineering ZE Intake Manifold Phenolic Spacers
- Outlaw Engineering Race Kit
- STT Heads (KL03)
- I/E Ports – Ported/Polished/Knife-Edged/Gasket Matched
- Polished Combustion Chambers
- New Mazda Retainers & Valve Stem Seals
- Valve Job (3 Angles on Valve – 1 Angle on Head)
- Milled .030”
- Custom All Motor Re-Grinded Cams
- Intake Cam: 0.353"lift 209deg @ 0.050"
- Exhaust Cam: 0.352"lift 202deg @ 0.050"
- STT Oil Pump (Rebuilt & Shimmed 3.5mm)
- ZE Pistons & Rods
- Toga High Performance Main/Rod Bearings
- STT Prepped Block
- Sand Blasted
- Hot Tanked & Chemically Cleaned
- Honed
- Flatlander Re-Ring Kit
- New Gaskets, Seals, Piston Rings, O-Rings, Etc...
- UR Aluminum Under Drive Pulley
- HPMotorsports Pacesetter Headers
- Re-Located o2 Bung, Flex-Pipe, 1500 Degree Paint
- Jeff Jeske 2.5” Testpipe
- 2.5” Crush Bent Exhaust Piping
- Magnaflow Race Series Muffler
- 2.25” Inlet w/ Single 4” Tip
- Solid Polyurethane Motor Mounts (Front/Rear)
- Corksport Stainless Steel Clutch Line
- SPEC Stage 3 – 6 Puck Ceramic Racing Clutch
- Fidanza 9lb Aluminum Flywheel
- RR-Racing Friction Surface Plate
- NGK V-Groove Spark Plugs (.043”)
- KL31 ecu and JE50 vaf
- STT Custom dual feed fuel setup
- MSD 8.5mm spark plug wires
and here is the link to his dyno plot: Streetthismx6 dyno

As you can see it is not exactly an easy thing to do, but it is possible. Also there is some hope thanks to CZT racing, (cyborgzero.com) They have a new intake that should make some great gains and a whole line of new performance parts coming out such as 11:1 compression pistons, race heads, headers, cams, hell the works for the kl-series engine.
So if you want 200hp at the wheels, where it counts its going to take some work. But I would def love to see it.

thanks

The 1.8 would be easier/cheaper to make have more Hp in the long run probably. 220whp on stock internals is very easy to get. Keep in mind a turbo motor will require more maintainence too.

There are huge differences in the way a KLZE will drive vs a turbo 1.8. The KLZE power is instant and is there whenever you need it. The 1.8 will have turbo lag and can be down right slow off boost. I have a turbo talon that runs low 13's. Around town in traffic though the car is an absolute dog. If I need to pull out into traffic quickly I've got to plan to do it. I cant crawl 3 feet out in the road and floor it and go. It just crawls along like an 82 honda civic until I hit 3,000rpm. Then it nails you back in the seat. I've got to rev it up drop the clutch and then it will go fast from a stop. Where as the KLZE has power instantly when you hit the pedal. If you get in trouble it gets you out quick.

I personally prefer the 2.5 V-6 for daily driving & autocrossing. The turbo car I LOVE at the drag strip.

Another example is an RX-7 I owned a few years ago. It made almost 180whp, But it made it at high rpms. The low end was just gutless. You really had to drive the car like you stole it to make it go fast. I just didn't enjoy that engine even though it was fast.

Ask yourself how you are really going to drive the car and which method of power delivery suits that style of driving & your preferences better. Ultimate Hp doesn't always equal ultimate fun when it comes to driving your car.

Originally posted by curtklze:
If I was gona do a ZE again I would get a straight neck ZE

isn't the straightneck the harder one to install of the 2? what benifits does it have over the curved neck?

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Trancelucent ]</small>

Hey, what's up with this "new CZT intake mani?" Could someone post its stats, or even better, a link? I must have missed it.

Originally posted by Nallboy:
Hey, what's up with this "new CZT intake mani?" Could someone post its stats, or even better, a link? I must have missed it.

Still in development. They had a decent thread on it, but they pulled it because people kept asking about availabilty, even though it's not ready for primetime yet. Basically it's a short ram log style intake that does away with the VRIS. Supposedly it alone will give an extra 30-40 HP on a KL-DE, and will supposedly also work on the K8 and KF-ZE, though they haven't even done testing on those yet to verify gains. But supposedly they did dyno it on a KL-DE with those results. Also said more peak torque too.

Originally posted by Trancelucent:

Originally posted by curtklze:
If I was gona do a ZE again I would get a straight neck ZE

isn't the straightneck the harder one to install of the 2? what benifits does it have over the curved neck?

since I said I would replace the intake manifold with the CZT one thats not really an issue.

The benifit is you wont get a regular millenia DE by mistake. also the KL-31 cams almost always came the straight neck ZE's and they are easer to get than the curved neck.

so... down side for curved neck= harder to get, Very had to tell if its a real ZE, usually come with cams designed for torque not H.P.

Is it safe to say if your curved neck block has no EGR passages than it is true KLZE?

Originally posted by lakersfan1:

Originally posted by Nallboy:
Hey, what's up with this "new CZT intake mani?" Could someone post its stats, or even better, a link? I must have missed it.

Still in development. They had a decent thread on it, but they pulled it because people kept asking about availabilty, even though it's not ready for primetime yet. Basically it's a short ram log style intake that does away with the VRIS. Supposedly it alone will give an extra 30-40 HP on a KL-DE, and will supposedly also work on the K8 and KF-ZE, though they haven't even done testing on those yet to verify gains. But supposedly they did dyno it on a KL-DE with those results. Also said more peak torque too.

ok... but this would also bolt onto the KL-ZE correct? If so, it would get rid of VRIS in exchange for a greater boost than the 30-40 HP it creates on the KL-DE right? Would it really be worth losing VRIS for?