Strut bar design

[crazycanadian]

I have a CS bar to use as a comparison.. I am meeting up with Bornsticky tonight who have a curve neck ZE.. We will be taking a bunch of measurements so that Jim can tailor his bar to hopefully clear the hood and strut bar...

I'm curious, and the measurements could be handy for Jim; you've seen my tweak to fix the CS bar...wonder if it would fit/have clearance if the bar was on the front side rather than the rear with the tweak.

I got some measurements... Bornsticky all ready has a cheaper version of the CS bar installed.. The measurements were almost the same between the 2 bars... His had been installed, and allowed to rub untill it made room to fit... There is 1 bolt on the curve neck manifolds thats a big problem.. The only real way around it is like what you did... The bar needs to be move more to the fire wall to clear both the manifold and the hood...

[300zxrb26dett]

Thanks for all your hard work in measuring this stuff.

Sounds like the only option at this point is top see if the single bar version flipped around will work, and if that doesnt then sorry guys I tried

The single bar version sits about 1" above the strut tower surface currently, and from looking at pictures, the bar comes off the front of the iner studs, and would put the bar just behind or slightly over the top of the M/C cap. Is there anything higher then the M/C cap?

At this point the bar is much closer to the firewall, should work this way eeven if it has to be raised a little.

[bbunkerc397]

How about you do it like the 1967 ford mustangs how the strut brace bolts to the firewall, don't try to go over the IM go around as close to the firewall as possible.

[Josh]

I did mine last night too I took some pics.

this is a reactive strut tower bar. from the base of the mounting point to the top of the center of the bar is about 3" I have polly motor mounts and do not have thermo spacer on yet. but they raise it another 1/8".



As you can see I have less than 1/8" between the bar and the hood



From the top of the IM





From the center of the strut tower end with a straight edge all the way across the bay resting on the IM bolt each side was about 2 1/4" from the base to the straight edge.





And to the very outside is was 2"




From the firewall









I think it is going to be hard pressed to get one bar to fit all. but I think that if the bar was mounted to the back side of the wall on off of the strut towers like the MS bar then there is a lot better chance for clearance.

Hey guys doesn't the factory GS strut tower bar clear the ZE with the curve neck?

[Nd4SpdSe]

this is a reactive strut tower bar.

We did the "spacer trick" like what was done on my CS bar, on Devlin's Reactive style strut bar and it helps too.


You would shift it back about the thickness of the bar, so about 1" back, which helps for clearning that VRIS plate. Not sure if on that style if it would be enough to clear with Outlaw spacers.

Some people in the past just replaced the pesky top bolt of the place with a low profile screw.

Those mounting holes on the plate can be totally shaved off. I used a grinder and it makes a nice smooth surface and might give ya the extra mm's needed with spacers. With my CS bar, Outlaw thermal spacers, with my mod to the CS bar and the VRIS place mounts shaved right off, it all fit with no rubbing.

Hey guys doesn't the factory GS strut tower bar clear the ZE with the curve neck?.

That's a JDM/EDM option, so not many people do have it. If my memory serves me right I think it did fit...

[bbunkerc397]

do it like this . . .



You see how it goes from the towers to the firewall on the mustang because of the air breather this looks to be the best way to do it with the KLZE curve neck too. Also can you sell me just the strut tower pieces so I can make something up? The only thing I can think of is the AC line that is in the way it also goes up against the firewall also. Something to think about.

[Josh]

the difference is the steel from the mustang could probably make 3 mx3...

Nd4SpdSe - Yeah I would play with it but I plan to put on the KLg4 IM very soon so I should have no clearance issues at that point Otherwise I would grind off the back plate and install my CS bar.

[bbunkerc397]

Sorry of the crappy drawing but you get the point. Ya this way seems to be the easy way to make it happen no matter what IM your running or engine.

[300zxrb26dett]

honestly from your pics, its clear the single bar version would work fine if it was flipped around. The question is at this point is if you guys want that one or not. If you want a double bar version just to fit your cars, then we may have to take that up with Jim and see what he says.

What do you guys want to see?

EDIT: Thermo spacers only raise the manifold 1/8"?? I was told 1" for thermo spacers?

[300zxrb26dett]

Jim sent me a PM, and I am passing on the information to the MX-3.com community

I'll build whatever anyone wants---it would be really cool if we could get a car here, but I can also just mock it up in the escort and take pics/maybe even send a bar to someone to test fit if needed. I like the idea about keeping it simple, maybe just doing the 2 bar heights for this group buy, but I don't want anyone to feel left out and as long as the unique bars aren't in a hurry I'll try an accomodate.

[Josh]

[fowljesse]

Now, I wish I still lived in the PHX area. I would buy a version that fit over a KLG4 IM.

[MrMazda92]

do it like this . . .

DAMN!!!

Turnbuckles to reach perfect fitment in a universal design, genius!!!

[Nd4SpdSe]

I'm curious to say, that I wonder if, a style that doesn't go from one one strut tower to the other would actually not work 100% as intended:

I don't think the design shown on the Mustang would be as effective because of the difference in the drivetrain layout. With the MX-3/FF layout, there is torsional forces exerted in the front suspension, FWD being more front heavy, and it's natural tencency to understeer. My initial experiences with my CS strut bar was on a totally stock suspension (as it was my first "performance" mod on my Mx-3) and to be it was a night-and-day difference. Went from K8, to K8 w/CS bar, to ZE w/o CS bar (couldn't fit the IM) to ZE w/CS bar. I did my (B&G w/Koni reds) suspension later on.

I can't say on what kind of difference it adds on a car with a non-stock suspension, but it made a huge difference in how the car handled and made a significant difference in reducing understeer. While it helps support and reinforce the car, I want to say that the difference is made by transfering the forces from the outter wheel to the inner to reduce understeer, because they are directly connected. A system that's interconnected with crossbars that goes to the firewall would transfer the forces in a different way. A directly connected strut bar would transfer the forces to the inner front, but to the chassis/firewall might move the forces away from the front end of the car to more centered and absorbed by the whole body...not sure if this would further reduce understeer, not as much as if they were directly connected. I would research FWD specific designs, RWD/AWD designs may not be a perfect example for an Mx-3.

With the JDM/EDM strut bar, I'm also wondering, because of all the bends in the bar to make it fit, that it would be more likely to flex at the bends in the bar, a little bit like a spring. Would still work, but not as efficient, depending on the thickness/strength of the material of course.

[300zxrb26dett]

That Mustang is not genius at all.........

2 major problems

1--Rod ends on every connection
2--Single bolt mount points

All those rods will do little to nothing except look pretty. when the body distorts they will deflect, but old Mustangs are not exactly cornering machines anyway.


Jims shop is located in California.

http://www.piercemotorsports.com/


I noticed a small difference with the cheap ebay bar, even with all my suspension mods. I wouldnt call it night and day for me, but its noticeable.

The triangulation would help with for and aft movement of the body and overall rigidity. but there are less forces acting on the car in those 2 directions then side to side.

The engine bay is kinda like a cardboard box that is open on the top, so while a crude experiment, you can play with different types of reinforcement in a box and push in it from different angles to see how things could react.

The small bends in any bar will reduce strength overall but some bends could be counteracted somewhat using a gusset in the bend if it was really a concern.


The next project after this group buy we want to work on is a rear bar with triangulation. The Escort/323/MX3 being hatchbacks flex a lot back there and could really benefit from something like this.

Obviously is there is enough interest it will happen, and this time it should be a little easier to make the main bar universal for all cars, and the triangulation would be the only different part.