1993 MX-3 V6 ATX Reverse and Neutral not working

[dlancelot]

Bought my first Mazda MX-3 today, and am now looking to refurbish it back to near factory condition...first things first...make it driveable to pass an insurance inspection:

Reverse acts like neutral, and neutral acts like it's in gear, all other gears seem to work fine. I haven't checked for trouble codes (do I need a diagnostic tool to look for these?, or is there a key sequence for this?).

Where would you guys suggest I start looking? (I don't have a haynes or chiltons yet, I do have some basic electronic skills, and a few diagnostic tools like a DMM; buddy of mine is mechanically inclined)

[Savin]

You need a paperclip to check for trouble codes. And no, I'm not joking either. If you use the search feature at the top of the page, you'll find out how to pull codes.

[dlancelot]

I had read somewhere here about that...couldn't find anything instructional that really helped though (Ryan has some good postings, but nothing step by step)...although I did find this UK posting that was quite detailed:
http://www.uk-mx3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1463" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does that look like the right procedure for my vehicle? (Just asking because I know there's the OBD-I and OBD-II diagnostic systems and that they're a bit different...don't wanna accidentally fry/zap anything important

P.S.
My vehicle is a north american model (if that helps any?)

[Savin]

http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=65390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34787" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those should help.
North American MX-3's have a check engine light so you don't need the LED like you need for UK MX-3's.

[dlancelot]

Thank you for the quick reply's Savin...I went to both of those links, however, neither of them seemed to indicate that the codes were for my vehicle. The first link showed codes for "92-93 CODES (1.6L SOHC ENGINE)" and "94-96 CODES (1.6L DOHC ENGINE)" only (mine is the 1993 V6 1.8L DOHC no?).

The second link doesn't tell which engine it's for (at least not that I can see).

[Savin]

2nd link is for the V6.

[dlancelot]

Ok, so far so good...next question, those codes seem to be engine only...I have a transmission problem

[Savin]

Try the online manual here: http://www.mx-3.com/manuals/index.php?f ... 0Manual/K/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can't help you any more than that as I don't know.

[dlancelot]

Oh geez, I didn't realize that the service manual will contain this information!? I've been looking for a Haynes/Chilton manual in my city. Guess I'll start calling around, thank you for the heads up on that one Savin. I should be good from here. Thank you again

[Newfie_dan]

Ok here is what to check;
1) fluid level and condition, get the engine fully warmed up then with the engine running check the fluid level, if its not full top it up. Also check the fluid condition it should be bright red if its dark red or worse (dark brown or black) then it and the filter need to be changed asap.
2) Try starting the car in gears other than P and N, if it does then its the neutral safety switch that is at fault, in your case I doubt that this is the problem as you say it seems like all the other gears are working ok for you, if the neutral safety has failed you usually only have 1 and 2.
3) If Reverse is not working and N acts like its in gear we need to check the shift cable. Remove the shift cable from the shifter on the top of the trans then with it running have a friend on the brake and park brake engaged shift it by hand to see if you get reverse. If you do then the cable it out of adjustment. 2nd, once reverse fails on a trans and you can not engage it by hand the trans is pretty much worn out, It probably means that the previous owner(s) did not follow the regular fluid and filter changes.

As an added fyi the factory cooler on these trans is garbage plain and simple, if you upgrade the cooler to an aftermarket one you will get wayyy more life out of the trans. If you opt for a rebuild do this as priority number 2 once the trans is in. This simple little mod can extend the life of the trans by 5X over stock. Also if you do pull the transmission pan check for metallic debris caked in the bottom and clean the pan well magnets and all. If you need to know anything else about automatics I know them very well so ask away.

[dlancelot]

Thank you Dan! You have given me a lot to work with. This will give me a week or two's worth of work for sure (I'm a shift worker 40 hours a week plus 10 hours public transit time; looking forward to cutting the latter down to 2.5 hours a week!).

As a side note, I wouldn't want to repair a transmission that's on it's way out, so with that in mind, which would you do first? I don't want to perform a full fluid change, then replace a safety switch then find out once I get to step 3 that I need to replace/rebuild the tranny would I? (or is it important to perform the steps in the order you have mentioned?)

[Newfie_dan]

first thing to check is the fluid condition and level, thats number 1 priority. The second is to try shifting the car in gear by hand, if you get reverse out of that then you know its just the shift cable being out of adjustment, if you do not get reverse that way then its time to start looking for a lower mileage auto trans. I put the steps in order for you so that you had an idea of where to start with it. Any questions feel free to ask or pm me.

[dlancelot]

Thanks again Dan. Savin/Dan, we found trouble codes 02 and 16. We removed the tranny pan, and there was quite a bit of metallic debris stuck to the magnets, and the fluid in the pan was quite muddy in texture/color. We cleaned out everything, scraped off the old gasket, got a kit, redid the whole thing, refilled it, and found that Reverse still acts like neutral, and neutral still acts like drive.

My buddy did the cable work while I was on the brake, and we couldn't get it to actually reverse. Is it possibly a solenoid inside the tranny, or one of the electrical devices that we noticed in the tranny pan area?

When you say a lower mileage tranny, my concern is that it will happen again, or that that tranny will have the same problem. Do we know what part inside the tranny causes this problem? (I'm thinking a rebuild maybe?)

Could either of those two trouble codes lead us to the cause of the problem?

P.S.
In picture #6 of the Midnight Rider, what is the yellow cannister with the black lid on the left hand side of the picture? (mine is well below the "L"; all other fluids seem to be at the right levels)

[Newfie_dan]

well codes 2 and 16 are crankshaft position sensor and egr valve respectively, these will make the car run kinda crappy but not influence reverse. as for shifting not working right you can try to adjust the neutral safety switch the procedure is here;
http://www.mx-3.com/manuals/showimg.php ... /K-103.gif
However if you can not get reverse even manually shifting it with the shift cable disconnected I would be more inclined to say that the tranny is not in the best of shape, there is a reverse solenoid but if it had failed there would be a tranmsission code for it, usually indicated by a flashing hold light while driving. The shift solenoids are easy to replace but you have to drop the transmission valve body to access it.

[dlancelot]

well codes 2 and 16 are crankshaft position sensor and egr valve respectively, these will make the car run kinda crappy but not influence reverse. as for shifting not working right you can try to adjust the neutral safety switch the procedure is here;
http://www.mx-3.com/manuals/showimg.php ... /K-103.gif
However if you can not get reverse even manually shifting it with the shift cable disconnected I would be more inclined to say that the tranny is not in the best of shape, there is a reverse solenoid but if it had failed there would be a tranmsission code for it, usually indicated by a flashing hold light while driving. The shift solenoids are easy to replace but you have to drop the transmission valve body to access it.

Thank you again for the quick response Dan!

okay, I guess those codes can wait for now in that case. Are there other signs of a neutral safety switch failing? (I heard something about being able to start the car in other gears besides park and neutral?)

When you say "manually shifting it with the shift cable disconnected", do you mean when my buddy disconnected the cable from the clip that was holding it in place, and just pushing and pulling it?

I'm not getting any flashing hold light...but I also haven't taken it for a drive...when you say "usually indicated by a flashing hold light while driving", do I have to be driving very far/certain speed?

*If you hadn't noticed, I really want to have the tranny drop procedure be the last effort because if it's not something inside of it, I'm gunna be kinda bummed out cause we don't have a lift, and this work is being done in my back drive on the gravel (I'll be getting a ramp set; unless there's something better that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?).