Straight Neck in car (pictures)
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Straight Neck in car (pictures)
this is my KLZE in my car with a straight neck intake manifold http://imgur.com/6hCzt.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...just wondering if i can get some advice on what you guys think i should do here...ive increased air volume in the manifold and im assuming that its having an effect on something...i was driving it for like 2 weeks and i was getting 15 mpg =/ and idling at like 2,000 rpm... the distributor (i think) just died the other day...so im replacing that...
do you guys have any ideas on a route i should take? i dont even know where to begin? and i know "get a curved neck" is going to be an answer, but i was just looking to make an alternative to buying one...do you think its bad for my engine? ok i know im gonna get some negative feedback, but i just want advice on how to keep this and make it run smoothly impossible?
heres a couple other pictures:
http://imgur.com/na0i6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://imgur.com/zQJZ6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and i know the engine bay is a mess and the wires are crossed (which i got complaints about already) but that was all done really quick just to get it running these pictures are like a year old now...
let me know what you guys think...
do you guys have any ideas on a route i should take? i dont even know where to begin? and i know "get a curved neck" is going to be an answer, but i was just looking to make an alternative to buying one...do you think its bad for my engine? ok i know im gonna get some negative feedback, but i just want advice on how to keep this and make it run smoothly impossible?
heres a couple other pictures:
http://imgur.com/na0i6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://imgur.com/zQJZ6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and i know the engine bay is a mess and the wires are crossed (which i got complaints about already) but that was all done really quick just to get it running these pictures are like a year old now...
let me know what you guys think...
1993 MX-3 w/ straight neck KLZE swap...Probe GT 2.5in headers, Custom exhaust w/ test pipe and OBX Twin Loop Tip, Bully Stage 3 Clutch, Fidanza Flywheel, Pheno Spacers, HEI mod, Blaster SS coil, Probinator chip, TWM short shifter, AWR front and rear mounts (88 Durometer), and Corksport braided clutch line...so far
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- _-Night-Shade-_
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
What the F did you do to your throttle body? That needs to stay ON the intake manifold, no wonder your car's running weird. If you're gonna fit the straight neck then do it properly.
- Inodoro Pereyra
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
You said you know "get a curved neck" would be an answer.
Well, guess what: "get a curved neck" is THE answer. That or get a hydro electric brake system, so you can get rid of he booster.
Not only you increased your plenum volume with that "mod" ( ), but you completely screwed up your VRIS.
Now, believe it or not, things like the plenum volume are calculated by ENGINEERS (that is, by people who know what they're doing), to give you the best RPM range for your engine, and the best torque figure for a street application. The VRIS takes that a step further, by changing the plenum volume in a CONTROLLED WAY, to give you the best torque figure across the whole RPM range. Both the plenum and the VRIS system work by RESONANCE. That elbow you put on your engine just lowered the resonant frequency of your plenum to a point where it's completely useless.
GET RID OF THAT STUPID ELBOW, AND EITHER GET A CURVED NECK, OR MODIFY YOUR BRAKE SYSTEM, IF HAVING A STRAIGHT NECK IS SO IMPORTANT TO YOU.
Well, guess what: "get a curved neck" is THE answer. That or get a hydro electric brake system, so you can get rid of he booster.
Not only you increased your plenum volume with that "mod" ( ), but you completely screwed up your VRIS.
Now, believe it or not, things like the plenum volume are calculated by ENGINEERS (that is, by people who know what they're doing), to give you the best RPM range for your engine, and the best torque figure for a street application. The VRIS takes that a step further, by changing the plenum volume in a CONTROLLED WAY, to give you the best torque figure across the whole RPM range. Both the plenum and the VRIS system work by RESONANCE. That elbow you put on your engine just lowered the resonant frequency of your plenum to a point where it's completely useless.
GET RID OF THAT STUPID ELBOW, AND EITHER GET A CURVED NECK, OR MODIFY YOUR BRAKE SYSTEM, IF HAVING A STRAIGHT NECK IS SO IMPORTANT TO YOU.
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- JWMX3
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
get a curve neck is not the answer at all.. it has nothing to do with your intake manifold, its that hack job sideways throttle placement
Do you have a K8 throttle body lying around ? you need a K8 throttle linkage
first remove the dual mechanism off your i assume is a KL31 tb.. use the smaller round K8 linkage on the kl31
It clears the brake booster just enough to be safe. its simple and took myself and projectzemx3 all of 15 minutes to figure out once we got both throttle bodys off to look at them side by side.
Do you have a K8 throttle body lying around ? you need a K8 throttle linkage
first remove the dual mechanism off your i assume is a KL31 tb.. use the smaller round K8 linkage on the kl31
It clears the brake booster just enough to be safe. its simple and took myself and projectzemx3 all of 15 minutes to figure out once we got both throttle bodys off to look at them side by side.
94' Mx3 GS 0-60 in 7.53s [5 spd conversion / Rebuilt 2.5 KL]
- Inodoro Pereyra
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
Using a K8 manifold might work, but you'd have to make a side by side dyno comparison to see how it affects performance. Intake plenums are calculated in relation with the total engine displacement, so you can be sure using a 1.8 l intake manifold on a 2.5 l engine WILL make a difference.
My guess is you'll lose some low end torque. If you're ok with that, it can work.
But, at least in my opinion, settling for lower performance when you can get the right IM at a junkyard for just a few bucks, doesn't make sense.
My guess is you'll lose some low end torque. If you're ok with that, it can work.
But, at least in my opinion, settling for lower performance when you can get the right IM at a junkyard for just a few bucks, doesn't make sense.
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- _-Night-Shade-_
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
He wasn't talking about the whole IM, just the throttle linkage.Inodoro Pereyra wrote:Using a K8 manifold might work, but you'd have to make a side by side dyno comparison to see how it affects performance. Intake plenums are calculated in relation with the total engine displacement, so you can be sure using a 1.8 l intake manifold on a 2.5 l engine WILL make a difference.
My guess is you'll lose some low end torque. If you're ok with that, it can work.
But, at least in my opinion, settling for lower performance when you can get the right IM at a junkyard for just a few bucks, doesn't make sense.
- JWMX3
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
I think you missed the point.... the picture i posted is a Straight neck ZE manifold with a KL31 throttlebody, the only thing K8 there is the linkage where the throttle cable attaches (see projectzemx3's worklog)Inodoro Pereyra wrote:Using a K8 manifold might work, but you'd have to make a side by side dyno comparison to see how it affects performance. Intake plenums are calculated in relation with the total engine displacement, so you can be sure using a 1.8 l intake manifold on a 2.5 l engine WILL make a difference.
My guess is you'll lose some low end torque. If you're ok with that, it can work.
But, at least in my opinion, settling for lower performance when you can get the right IM at a junkyard for just a few bucks, doesn't make sense.
the right IM is already on his car
94' Mx3 GS 0-60 in 7.53s [5 spd conversion / Rebuilt 2.5 KL]
- Inodoro Pereyra
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
Yep, I think I did...JWMX3 wrote:
I think you missed the point....
Sorry...
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
This is exactly what I did. I put the K8 bell crank on my KL31 throttle body. I also installed a modified MX-6 brake booster.
The only thing I don't like about it is that I have to unbolt the bell crank from the TB to remove the TB because it won't go past the brake reservoir with the linkage installed. But it's not so bad.
I would like to know how the throttle feels with the stock 2-stage bell crank. I'm thinking there is probably a good reason they did that.
The only thing I don't like about it is that I have to unbolt the bell crank from the TB to remove the TB because it won't go past the brake reservoir with the linkage installed. But it's not so bad.
I would like to know how the throttle feels with the stock 2-stage bell crank. I'm thinking there is probably a good reason they did that.
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
So this is the all famous secret on fitting the straight neck into an mx3?? I remember a few years ago there were some members here that would refuse to help a brother out on fitting the straight neck. Great post!
-hec
MX-3 w/ curved neck millenia klde, boosted @ 5 psi. /bov and wastegate are good!/ nitto drag radial/ gutted interior/ millenia red top injectors, vortech fmu/aem wideband/ all bolts ons/ Car put together 100% by me. Mechanic? who needs a mechanic? ew.. real men work on their own cars!
MX-3 w/ curved neck millenia klde, boosted @ 5 psi. /bov and wastegate are good!/ nitto drag radial/ gutted interior/ millenia red top injectors, vortech fmu/aem wideband/ all bolts ons/ Car put together 100% by me. Mechanic? who needs a mechanic? ew.. real men work on their own cars!
- JWMX3
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
the 2-stage was apparently for throttle response... but ive driven both and feel no difference.. projectze's car hauls @ss too so I would throw that theory out the window, just because mazda changed it for the better, dosent mean it worked.wytbishop wrote:This is exactly what I did. I put the K8 bell crank on my KL31 throttle body. I also installed a modified MX-6 brake booster.
The only thing I don't like about it is that I have to unbolt the bell crank from the TB to remove the TB because it won't go past the brake reservoir with the linkage installed. But it's not so bad.
I would like to know how the throttle feels with the stock 2-stage bell crank. I'm thinking there is probably a good reason they did that.
we originally did the mx6 booster as well, its unnecessary but definetly not as crammed in there. worth the extra work for a REALLY clean install i think.
hec - it was those boys from atlanta that fit the straight neck first, but they wanted to keep it all hush hush because they wanted to be special
i though this myth was busted a long time ago, i guess lots of members missed that thread !
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
I agree with JW - I prefer the K8 one stage TB.JWMX3 wrote:the 2-stage was apparently for throttle response... but ive driven both and feel no difference.. projectze's car hauls @ss too so I would throw that theory out the window, just because mazda changed it for the better, dosent mean it worked.wytbishop wrote:I would like to know how the throttle feels with the stock 2-stage bell crank. I'm thinking there is probably a good reason they did that.
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- fowljesse
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
There's another answer that should be mainstream by now; KLG4 IM. If you port match it to the square port heads, and knife edge the divider, you'll have airflow as good as the curve-neck, with closer VRIS points. They come from 98-2002 626 V6s. You still have to use the K8 linkage, but it's nowhere near the brake booster.
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
The only (good) reason I wanted to put a straightneck in my car was to get the KL31 cams and not have to source a different manifold.
The other (childish) reason was to be special...though I didn't need to...my mom already says that I am.
The other (childish) reason was to be special...though I didn't need to...my mom already says that I am.
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
- fowljesse
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Re: Straight Neck in car (pictures)
When I want people to know I'm special, I just wear a white helmet, and lean forward when I walk.
But, seriously, the straight neck is viable, and many people have pulled it off, but, also, many people have broken their booster. The short booster idea is awesome.
But, seriously, the straight neck is viable, and many people have pulled it off, but, also, many people have broken their booster. The short booster idea is awesome.
'93 GS - P&P DE w/ ZE exh. cams/ pistns, KLG4 IM, 65mm TB, MSnS, Phenos, K&N RAI, UDP, Grnd wires, rear batt, filld MM, torq strt, TWM short shftr, Exedy, Lng tube hdrs 2.5" Side exhaust, H&R sprngs, Poly bushngs, strutbars, Alum. crss mmber&tiebar, 22mm swybar, solid links, Direzzas, leather int, Alpine 9805 stereo & alrm, keyless entry, 10 Boston Accoustics spkrs, Prjectrs, Blaster2, CF hood, FG hatch, Lexan