Engine Type (Eunos 800?)

slimsmedley · Post by **slimsmedley** » May 12th, 2005, 2:07 am

i just got my KL finsihed up and running in my car. The japanese importer i bought it from tells me that its a KLZE from a eunos 800, which kinda made sense because it initially came with auto trans on it (i believe Eunos 800 ZE's only came in auto). After swapping the engines (k8 to KL) and ecus (to KL28) and doing a power run on the dyno, it only comes up as 92 k/watts at the wheels, which is about the reading expected from a DE; it should be about 110 k/watts for ZE.
I've been looking over all the sites on the net, and they all mention DIFFERENT things about the intake neck shapes. It has a short straight intake neck, did any ZE's from Eunos 800s have these? (i can email photos)
any ideas? could it be the ECU slowing me down?

mxmaz · Post by **mxmaz** » May 12th, 2005, 9:11 am

i could take a look mxmaz@hotmail.com

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » May 12th, 2005, 11:19 am

Hmmm you could have a kfze as well, thats about what i got on my 1st dyno run when i had mine.

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » May 12th, 2005, 11:38 am

Piston top check and cam code check.

babyblueMX3 · Post by **babyblueMX3** » May 12th, 2005, 11:51 am

eunos 800 came with a curve neck manifold ..you said you have a short neck
klze's came with 2 kinds of intake long straight and curve
klde's all have short straight necks...

looks like you have a klde my friend..did you take a look at the head codes ?

slimsmedley · Post by **slimsmedley** » May 13th, 2005, 2:08 am

Mnemonic wrote:Hmmm you could have a kfze as well, thats about what i got on my 1st dyno run when i had mine.

the engine number begins with kl, so i guess that rules kf out

i will check the head codes, is there any dismantling involved?

babyblueMX3 · Post by **babyblueMX3** » May 13th, 2005, 7:42 am

no you going to have a hard time reading the full code but check if there's 31 written in the code

mxmaz · Post by **mxmaz** » May 13th, 2005, 9:53 am

That is just a klde motor. Unless you had the intake manifold put on yourself, or for some reason whoever had the engine before put that IM on it which is not very likely. You would probably get better dyno numbers using the right ecu & vaf. See if you can get the place where you got it from to send you a curved neck ze intake manifold, and the ze cams as restitution for sending you the wrong engine and that should put you close on ze power. Either that or give you some money back because a de is not worth as much as a ze

slimsmedley · Post by **slimsmedley** » May 13th, 2005, 12:08 pm

thanks for looking at the pics mxmaz
i have had a talk with the guy i bought the engine from and he is not being helpful so far. He says he has looked in all his engine codes and parts listings and has no evidence of a KL-ZE existing. Part of the problem seems to be that it can't have come from the eunos 800. it must have been imported from something though, because it has no chassis number.
I have called up mazda australia and they have no evidence of there being 2 types of KL engines - fair enough because the ZE was never released in australia.
So now my problem is i have no evidence from a reliable source stating the physical differences between the DE and the ZE to prove to the guy that he sold me the wrong engine. I can't really say 'these guys on a forum told me so' to him cus he will just shut me down.
The invoice states specifically that the engine is a KL-ZE as well!!!
any ideas on my next move??? i have thought about contacting mazda japan and asking them to run a check on the engine number to see what vehicle the engine came from...

mxmaz · Post by **mxmaz** » May 13th, 2005, 12:31 pm

Well heads, cams, pistons, and intake manifold is the differences between a de and a ze. Also just show them your dyno, and ask them how could a 200hp engine dyno so low.
It was sold to you as a klze, and you know its not. So keep fighting it. Also tell them that Mazdas had klde engine in there cars in Japan as well so the fact that the engine came from Japan does not mean it is a ze.

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » May 13th, 2005, 1:18 pm

I'd try having Mazda Australia run the engine VIN. I'm pretty damned sure there wasn't any engine choices in Japan that had the short straight neck KL like that. That intake even has the oval runners, and there is NO KL from Japan that had oval runners. The oval runners in Japan were for KF or K8 engines only.

Post by **Custommx3** » May 13th, 2005, 1:40 pm

lakersfan1 wrote:I'd try having Mazda Australia run the engine VIN. I'm pretty damned sure there wasn't any engine choices in Japan that had the short straight neck KL like that. That intake even has the oval runners, and there is NO KL from Japan that had oval runners. The oval runners in Japan were for KF or K8 engines only.

I agree, yet there are square ported KFs in Japan as well.

Just as a reference heres a KL IM on my KFZE swap.
As you can see they are identical.

mxmaz · Post by **mxmaz** » May 13th, 2005, 3:06 pm

They did have klde's just like his in Japan. I got a buddy there that i sent looking for some ze ecu's. I told him to get one from an mx6. He gets back to me and says he found one, but this is the one he found:

I looked in to it and that is the same ecu on some usdm klde's. So that would mean that the mx6 my friend pulled that ecu out of in Japan has to use the same intake manifold or the vris points would be off.

slimsmedley · Post by **slimsmedley** » May 13th, 2005, 10:41 pm

lakersfan1 wrote:I'd try having Mazda Australia run the engine VIN.

i called mazda australia and got them to run the engine number for me. The only info they could supply me with was that it definately was NOT an australian engine, anything else is up to the importer to state.

Basically i think the only way i can deal with this now is to ring him up, state the differences between the DE and the ZE, mention that i asked specifically for the 200hp model, state that the engine couldn't have possibly been a ZE from a eunos 800 and see what happens. After that i guess its off to consumer affairs for an official complaint.

One thing i need to know first is who or what company began naming the engines the KL-DE and the KL-ZE. Were they marketed or named specifically by Mazda to distinguish between the two? or is it a more colloquial term? Basically, is ZE an offical term?