Another KLZE Project Started - My ZE and Pile O' Stuff

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » April 21st, 2005, 10:53 pm

Thanks for the heads up Tunes67. Yea all the carbon was even across all cylinders, but they werent' completely black, more of a evenly speckled kinda thing. They weren't pitted tho, just bits of shiny with a lot of black. I should probably take a look at my K8 and see what they look like to compare.

papa roached · Post by **papa roached** » April 21st, 2005, 11:18 pm

i can tell you its a pre 97 motor, has the tube on the front of the VC and the casting line in the middle of the IM

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » April 25th, 2005, 8:57 am

What car did that come out of?

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » May 10th, 2005, 9:14 pm

Just a bit of an update on this project if anyone's interested. New engine's been prepped, old engine's been removed. I don't know if they're correct, but the guys at the garage told me that the engine's from a '99 Millenia. Wasn't sure if they produced KLZEs through that year, but that's what they said. Rick, unfortunately I keep forgetting to ask about the condition of the tops of the pistons...sorry 'bout that.

Thankfully, the engine ended up being very clean inside when then pulled the valve covers. In any case, here's some miscellaneous pictures. Just getting excited about finally getting it all together. One question for those who had a shop do this swap for them......what did you do with the old K8?

New Engine w/Headers:

Good Look at the KLZE Head Stampings:

Engine Bay sans Engine (if you look closely you can see the SRD shifter bushing I put in...kinda amusing, to me anyways):

Machined Flywheel:

Trans:

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » May 10th, 2005, 9:30 pm

Make absolutely sure it says "KL68" on the top of the throttle body.

If it says KL47, noyan screwed you and shipped you a millenia KLDE. I've heard of them doing it before on the probe board.

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » May 10th, 2005, 10:08 pm

Gro Harlem wrote:Make absolutely sure it says "KL68" on the top of the throttle body.

If it says KL47, noyan screwed you and shipped you a millenia KLDE. I've heard of them doing it before on the probe board.

Thanks for the heads up, Gro. Couple questions:

1) I have a very good top view picture of the new intake manifold that came with the engine. Would the 'KL68' or 'KL47' marking be visible on the TB from that angle?

2) If I've verified the KL31-1A1, KL31-101 front and rear head markings, the KL01 markings on the cams, and the 'KL' on the block, is that good enough verification that it's a ZE? If not, with all those similar pieces, what differentiates a real KLZE from the Millenia KLDE they might have sent me instead?

Again, really appreciate your experience with this......

-Jay

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » May 11th, 2005, 1:34 am

the KL31 stuff on the cylinder heads is not adequate to identify the engine for sure. The Millenia engine that came in north american cars had the same KL131 cylinder heads w/the square ports (hence why its intake manifold is somewhat sought after on here).

And its kind of hard to read but it is RIGHT on top of the throttle body...you kinda have to look close, there is a serial # and should say "KL68" on it somewhere. Also, the intake manifold has it stamped on there somewhere. You should bea ble to easily read the TB one tho, if its dirty/corroded it can kinda be hidden, unless they filed it off or something crazy.

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » May 11th, 2005, 1:37 am

and as for the KL01 camshafts, those are USDM KLDE spec camshafts, not as agressive as the KL31's.

however, the curved-neck KLZE's did come with these cams for some reason. The only real difference between a curved neck KLZE and a USDM millenia KLDE is the fact the KLZE has 10:1 compression while the KLDE has 9.2:1, everything else is the same (kl01 cams, curved mani, kl31 / 131a cylinder heads w/square ports)

Thats why, if you want the very best performance, you should get a KLZE w/straight neck, source a curved-neck manifold & shove it on your KL31 cammed straight neck. Plus its easier to ID a straight-neck as being a true KLZE and they are more abundant anyways. I had a helluva time sourcing a true KLZE curved-neck manifold however....most people pass KL47 mani's/tb's off as KLZE spec stuff. (and it really doesn't matter...its basically identical minus the stampings)

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » May 11th, 2005, 6:40 am

Gro Harlem wrote:Thats why, if you want the very best performance, you should get a KLZE w/straight neck, source a curved-neck manifold & shove it on your KL31 cammed straight neck. Plus its easier to ID a straight-neck as being a true KLZE and they are more abundant anyways. I had a helluva time sourcing a true KLZE curved-neck manifold however....most people pass KL47 mani's/tb's off as KLZE spec stuff. (and it really doesn't matter...its basically identical minus the stampings)

Guess I decided to learn the hard way.

For whatever reason, during my search for KLZE identification information, I never ran across this gem, or the differences in pistons (dished vs. flat). I get the distinct impression I got screwed on this one.

With the picture I've got of the new intake manifold, I can't make out the serial # on the TB, but I can pretty distinctly see a '47' stamped on the IM. I'd assume that's proof enough I got the wrong one. I'll double check with the garage, ask them to look at the TB, as well as the pistons to try and confirm.

I'm trying to come up with a contingency plan of sorts if I did get the wrong engine. I'd love to get the right ZE setup, but with the hassle/$$$ that would be involved I'd like to see if I can use what I have. If I can prove it's a KLDE, then I can ask Noyan for a partial refund or something.

So, if I winds up I do have a Millenia KLDE with the KL47 IM, what combination of pieces would I have to change from my ZE plan? I've got ZE spark plugs (bkr6e-11), KL31 ECU, was planning on using my K8 VAF, my existing PRM CAI, etc. What would/wouldn't work best for the KLDE?

Sorry, just kind of panicing here. What would you guys do? I've already had the garage do all kind of work on the new engine (FGS replacement, water pump, etc.) Man, this is exactly what I was trying to avoid.

Dave-UK-MX3-V6-SE · Post by **Dave-UK-MX3-V6-SE** » May 11th, 2005, 6:41 am

So is it possible/easy to buy a curved neck KLZE that's true jap spec and 200bhp ?
I'm getting confused the more I read! I'm about to attempt the swap you see... currently trying to source an engine from my friends in Japan (this is a UK KLZE Swap!!!)

Am I right in thinking that the reason us MX'ers wouldn't want a straight neck KLZE is that we need to relocate an engine bay component to make room for the long neck?

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » May 11th, 2005, 8:28 am

Gro Harlem wrote: And its kind of hard to read but it is RIGHT on top of the throttle body...you kinda have to look close, there is a serial # and should say "KL68" on it somewhere. Also, the intake manifold has it stamped on there somewhere. You should bea ble to easily read the TB one tho, if its dirty/corroded it can kinda be hidden, unless they filed it off or something crazy.

GREAT NEWS! I just had the garage I'm having do my swap look on the TB for any markings (I didn't tell them what to look for, just to find anything on it). They told me that on the side of the TB they found the marking:

KL68 9N29195900-3521
and on the bottom of the plenum
SJ20A 2AJ12

They weren't able to tell the shape of the cylinder head from just looking at the tops through the plug holes, though. Also, I'm still concerned about the IM itself....I swear I see a '47' stamped on it.

In any case, is the TB marking positive enough verification that I've got a true blue curved neck KLZE? Please tell me yes.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » May 11th, 2005, 9:20 am

The IM looks identical to mine and although it's extremely difficult to verify from the picture it does appear that you have the KL68 TB. I say this because I'm only going by the distinguishing features from the top view which is the stopscrew for the butterfly valve cam, the air idle adjust screw and overall general appearance as it looks fromthe top view. 1 or 2 more pics of the IM and TB would help greatly to re-confirm I'll trade your ZE for mine if you're really concerned, yours is much much cleaner and shinier than mine...LOL .

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » May 11th, 2005, 2:05 pm

yeah i wouldn't worry then. if you have the kl68 tb or not

BTW: I'm nto 100% sure that the intake mani's have "kl68" stamped on them.

The curved neck I have on my car right now is a KL47 one that is supposed to be JDM but I personally think the person who sold it to me screwed me and gave me a millenia

ALthough, it IS possible the KL47 intake manifold is used on the JDM curved necks. It would be kinda a waste to have two seperate manifold designs that are basically identical, minus the #'s casted into them.

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » May 11th, 2005, 2:07 pm

and for future reference...there are quite a few diff KLZE's out there.

THe most common being the straight-neck KL31 cammed ones that came in the MX6 Mystere's, Chronos (jdm 626) and MS8's

Common misconception is that the MS8 is the curved neck. This is 100% wrong. the Eunos 800 is the jdm millenia overseas and is the only car w/the curved neck. Much harder to find, but still not super rare. It has KL01 cams, & the curved stuff, but is otherwise the same

And I've read that the 97+s have solid lifters and some other weird stuff on them that make it difficult to swap into an older car. But it seems that most KLZE's are from 91-93' so it doesn't really matter

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » May 11th, 2005, 9:13 pm

jschrauwen wrote:1 or 2 more pics of the IM and TB would help greatly to re-confirm I'll trade your ZE for mine if you're really concerned, yours is much much cleaner and shinier than mine...LOL .

Thanks for doing the comparison. I'm reasonably confident the TB is the correct one just based on the KL68 code that's on it. However, I would like to confirm the IM as well. From the pictures I have at the moment, one thing stuck out for me as an identifier, and that was the raised '47' found on the top of the manifold (at least it looks like '47' to me). Here's where it is on mine, and a closeup of it:

Location:

Closeup:

If you can find that same marking on yours, I'd be very confident my IM is one that will work with the KLZE. It'd also save me from having to take another trip to get more pictures.

If you think it'd be a good idea for me to do so, however, I can try and get more tomorrow. I'd love to be able to tell the garage I'm working with to proceed forward with the swap without an uneasy feeling in the back of my mind. I'm sure they're wondering about the project as a whoel when when I told them I might have the wrong engine this morning.

Thank you guys for all your help with this.